Survival at sea Course

[jonnyboy]

I'm afraid i'm never one to take at face value opinions. PFD's are not designed to turn the casualty face over so apart from adding more buoyancy how would a 150N vest be of additional help to an injured casualty ??Similarly , I fired off one of my miniflares over new year and it certainly gave a decent show. it would in my opinion be of great use guiding in a rescue for example , particularly as I have 7 left!

 

They dont make 150N vest that would be of any use on a yak, i was talking about the Gas inflation type which will turn an injured person over> I argued that you weren't likely to get injured ON a yak, and the instructor said that (as he is also a lifeboatman) the pull in more surfers/windsurfers/yakkers with sunstroke than anything else in the summer.

 

The Miniflares may have some use at night, as your fireworks display showed, but are next to useless in the day which is why after launching one distress flare, most vessels in distress fire the orange smoke which is an internationally known distress signal.

 

One Last thing, please dont fire flares unless you are genuinely in distress, or have warned the coastguard that you will be doing so. BIG fines otherwise

[Martin Hurst]

One Last thing, please dont fire flares unless you are genuinely in distress, or have warned the coastguard that you will be doing so. BIG fines otherwise

 

good advice but it was new years mid night (a good time to test) and i'm 45 miles from the sea.

[overrun]

They dont make 150N vest that would be of any use on a yak, i was talking about the Gas inflation type which will turn an injured person over> I argued that you weren't likely to get injured ON a yak, and the instructor said that (as he is also a lifeboatman) the pull in more surfers/windsurfers/yakkers with sunstroke than anything else in the summer.

 

The Miniflares may have some use at night, as your fireworks display showed, but are next to useless in the day which is why after launching one distress flare, most vessels in distress fire the orange smoke which is an internationally known distress signal.

 

One Last thing, please dont fire flares unless you are genuinely in distress, or have warned the coastguard that you will be doing so. BIG fines otherwise

 

Have pondered all these questions long and hard myself, self rescue can be very quickly tiring if it goes wrong, as with so many things, technique (and a cool head) are very important. Wondered about an deployable stirrup for assisting rentry? The whole Life Jacket/PFD question concerns as well, has anyone tried wearing both the usual 50N PFD with a gas inflation jacket on top for emergencies, or is this totally impractical?

[OKreally]

I'm afraid i'm never one to take at face value opinions. I'm not saying there incorrect but would require a full explanation.

I have my doubts , as the PFD rating (I thought??) gives 2 times the flotation for the weight scale , so i'd have thought without knowing the weight of the wearer comments such as a 50N is useless are meaningless out of context. PFD's are not designed to turn the casualty face over so apart from adding more buoyancy how would a 150N vest be of additional help to an injured casualty ??Similarly , I fired off one of my miniflares over new year and it certainly gave a decent show. it would in my opinion be of great use guiding in a rescue for example , particularly as I have 7 left!

 

A lot of sense being talked but you have to define what you're actually doing with these items & the practicality involved.

 

I used to own a windsurfing business part of which was a school. When we started we canvasees the local education authorities as to the possibility of teaching groups from schools - they came back with a list of requirements one of which was a BS3595 (from memory) life jacket to be used..this would be the equivalent of the 150lb one being mooted by the safety expert. We enlisted the help of the RYA to point out that whilst it saves lives by flipping the wearer on their back whilst unconscious it makes swimming near impossible, entry on to a board (or kayak) virtuallly impossible & that the self-inflating ones couldn't work due to the immersion factor - the same applies to a wet ride in a yak. Their lawyers & insurers agreed (there were a few other non-yak related factors as well) & you'll not see a school of almost any kind of small boat tuition in aything but 50N buoyancy aids.

 

My point is that the most likely event in which you'll need to use one is if you get over-enthusiastic or make an error of judgement (these mostly happen as you enter the surf zone) what you need most is the ability to swim back & re enter your boat so the 50N is a 'no brainer' as the yanks would put it. Yes if a ship or helicopter went down you'd stand a better chance on your back but for us the PFD is the choice for the 99.999% of the time.

 

As for flares it's again about practicality. The little pack of Wessex flares gives you that number of chances of being seen. I've sold & used all of the types over the years. When windsurfing (a younger & slimmer period of my life!) I used to take the six pack & after about a year of not using them I tried them by firing in to the gound (don't do this in a small concrete yard unless you can jump high & quickly!!!) & only 4 out of the 6 worked. Orange smoke is good, flares are good but the basic rule of trying to fish with a mate & letting the coastguards or a family member know where you're going AND when you expect to be back are probaby the best safety precautions you can take.

 

Kayak fishing is fun partly because it's so easy to do...if it starts getting to the stage where you have to tow another yak behind you for all the extra kit (I'll be delighted!!) then it starts getting to be less fun so common sense & being prepared for the majority of circumstances rather than every single remote one is, in my opinion, the way to go so don't go ditching the stuff you've bought..it might come in handy...the odds are by taking all the other precautions you'll never use it except at New Year. When I was running a group of chandleries (way back) it's how we used to dispose of our out of date ones!

 

Regards

 

Andrew

(Johnson Outdoors so have an axe to grind as we sell buoyancy aids but ex IRB & rescue boat cox, ex chandlery manager, ex windsurfing shop/school owner, ex-Gul etc, etc)

[Martin Hurst]

Spot on - Thanks

[paintfly]

The link you've put up there Specimen says the flare burns for 20 seconds at 10,000 candella (from the hand) . The miniflare lasts for 60 seconds at 150000 candela and goes up I guess 20-25m. The normal red parachute flare lasts 40 seconds at 10000 candela as well but goes up higher. Think a few would be surprised if they let off one of those little things

My red hand helds burn for 60 secs at 10,000 candela. I've never used one, but I'm surprised a mini flare that only goes up 20-25m would take as long as 60 secs to come down without a parachute.

[Martin Hurst]

very good point kev , just repeating what it said on specimens link. Thinking back theres no way mine was up there for that long but alcohol and age dulls the memory

 

 

just checked - poor bit of marketing on that link. The description is 60 secs and 15000 but on the box it clearly states 6 secs and 10,000 !!

Edited January 20, 2007 by Martin Hurst

[paintfly]

very good point kev , just repeating what it said on specimens link. Thinking back theres no way mine was up there for that long but alcohol and age dulls the memory

just checked - poor bit of marketing on that link. The description is 60 secs and 15000 but on the box it clearly states 6 secs and 10,000 !!

Yeh, s'more like it

[Yakity - Yak - u.k.]

Hi Moonyakker.

 

Yes I do carry a pair of fins on the yak.

Normaly they are tucked under the front hatch straps of the kayak, or behind the seat, depends what Kayak Im using.

Spent a lot of hours using fins, and enjoy the security they offer me personaly.

As long as you maintain contact with the kayak if you tip, they are a great asset aiding a self recovery.

Saves having to use a stirrup or paddle float.

The power you can generate with them makes recovery very easy, you can clear the Kayak nearly

In a swell or choppy waters, or if your tired from paddling they would be a huge help getting back on.

 

I also use them to control the kayak in a breeze, legs over the sides, like rudders, works for me.

 

In the very unlikely event of putting a hole in the kayak, Id have an easier swim back to shore, or could stay afloat for a very long time.

 

 

Bill.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Yakity - Yak - u.k.

[Moonyaker]

Hi Bill

 

Yes I can see that fins would be a boon when performing a re-entry; food for thought!

 

 

Moonyaker