marine white paper

[Jaffa]

Hi Nick,

 

Teeth that just RSA can make bite? What will the green NGO's do with their new set of gnashers?

[nick]

anyone that wishes (and has standing) would be able to. But I am interested in the RSA perspective. Even the commercials could make use of this legislation to protect the marine environment and protect their long term futures, but as everything is all right in the sea I'm sure they wont bother

[Jaffa]

anyone that wishes (and has standing) would be able to. But I am interested in the RSA perspective. Even the commercials could make use of this legislation to protect the marine environment and protect their long term futures, but as everything is all right in the sea I'm sure they wont bother

 

Which marine environment in which year, is year zero to be based?

[nick]

Year zero, hmmmm, so we're talking polpot and his pleasant regime are we?

 

Not sure what brought that up.

 

Nothing of substance to say regarding the white paper?

 

Or nothing positive to say about conservation?

 

Or just plain scared that at last the government have seen commercials for the bunch of selfish greedy money grabbing idiots that many have seen for years, that do not care for the future, and that they now recognize that there is more money to be made from other users of our seas than the "poor old badly done to commercials"?

[Jaffa]

Year zero, hmmmm, so we're talking polpot and his pleasant regime are we?

 

Not sure what brought that up.

 

Nothing of substance to say regarding the white paper?

 

Or nothing positive to say about conservation?

 

Or just plain scared that at last the government have seen commercials for the bunch of selfish greedy money grabbing idiots that many have seen for years, that do not care for the future, and that they now recognize that there is more money to be made from other users of our seas than the "poor old badly done to commercials"?

 

Ermm, sorry Nick but it will make no material differnence to my life if "the poor old badly done to commercials" go to the wall or not. On the other hand while you are quite happy to class a whole group of people, as a " bunch of selfish greedy money grabbing idiots that many have seen for years, that do not care for the future" , i start to worry just who else you are willing to box and classify, and what happens to them in your pursuit of this anglers utopia

 

It was a serious enough question about which year and which environment we should use as a baseline though. Which is it?

 

and the "people of standing" are ?

[steve pitts]

I note that on the subject of a sea angling licence -

 

Based on an assumed take up rate of 800,000 the revenue generated is estimated to be between 9 and 12 million per year.

That would make the average cost (assuming discounts for youngsters, senior citizens and occasional anglers) between £11.25 and £15.00pa

 

'Administration' is estimated at £2 million pa

 

Set-up costs to Government £0.1m to £1.5 million

 

Annual running costs between £1.2 and £2.8 million

 

So - some fairly wide guesstimates there on the set-up and running costs.

Bearing in mind the usual significant under-estimates on spending for Government projects (for some reason the Millenium Dome and London Olypics spring to mind) I wouldn't be surprised if the true costs of estimates are doubled or trebled in reality.

 

But the good news is that any money left over will be spent on improving the angling experience!

 

Now - what will we do with the two and thruppence that hasn't gone on admin and running the scheme?

 

An ideal opportunity for all those opposed to licences and / or bag limits to join in on this one.

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited March 17, 2007 by steve pitts

[barry luxton]

I note that on the subject of a sea angling licence -

 

Based on an assumed take up rate of 800,000 the revenue generated is estimated to be between 9 and 12 million per year.

That would make the average cost (assuming discounts for youngsters, senior citizens and occasional anglers) between £11.25 and £15.00pa

 

'Administration' is estimated at £2 million pa

 

Set-up costs to Government £0.1m to £1.5 million

 

Annual running costs between £1.2 and £2.8 million

 

So - some fairly wide guesstimates there on the set-up and running costs.

Bearing in mind the usual significant under-estimates on spending for Government projects (for some reason the Millenium Dome and London Olypics spring to mind) I wouldn't be surprised if the true costs of estimates are doubled or trebled in reality.

 

But the good news is that any money left over will be spent on improving the angling experience!

 

Now - what will we do with the two and thruppence that hasn't gone on admin and running the scheme?

 

An ideal opportunity for all those opposed to licences and / or bag limits to join in on this one.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

I have just got to the bit in the bill where it talks about licences and the benifits. What i don't understand is that it mentions carparks. As we all nearly allways park under the control of our local authorities, who make money out of us whether we park legally or not, why do the uk goverment propose to spend yet more of our money for extra carparks, at the end of the day they also want us private motorists off the road in any event?

 

If defra propose a chargeble licence for rsa does that apply to commercial as well, i haven't got to that section yet.

[nick]

It is so wonderful to see all those narrow little minds at work.

 

Read the whole white paper, can you not see any positives in there? The whole of the white paper is what will deliver benefits to the marine environment, and thus to RSA.

 

Yes we know they are going to suggest licences, it is hardly a surprise.

 

The White Paper covers a lot of ground. In it there is a sea change in attitudes to the way that the marine environment is going to be managed. But let's not look at that, lets keep a narrow focus and whine about licences (and probably bag limits).

 

We wouldn't want to be accused of broad mindedness would we

Edited March 18, 2007 by nick

[steve pitts]

I have just got to the bit in the bill where it talks about licences and the benifits. What i don't understand is that it mentions carparks. As we all nearly allways park under the control of our local authorities, who make money out of us whether we park legally or not, why do the uk goverment propose to spend yet more of our money for extra carparks, at the end of the day they also want us private motorists off the road in any event?

 

If defra propose a chargeble licence for rsa does that apply to commercial as well, i haven't got to that section yet.

 

Well you see Barry - once they have invested OUR licence money on seaside carparks, they can then charge us a fiver an hour to use them!

 

That's assuming OUR carparks aren't already full of holiday makers, ramblers, birdwaters, divers, yachties and part-time netters

 

They're not daft are they?

 

They do say that the plan is to develop the participation in sea angling and therefore the expenditure and the increase in revenue that comes with that.

 

It's been said before that the VAT currently raised on sea angler's expenditure is around the £100 million mark.

Of course, no-one would suggest that this money is used exclusively for the benefit of sea angling - not when there are wars in Iraq and Afganistan to fight and hospitals and schools at home to build and maintain, but surely, if they do believe that adopting 'A more holistic approach to managing our marine eco-systems' and applying focused investment on improving the angling experience, then some of the existing revenue that we generate could be used, rather than introducting a licence scheme which might actualy put people off taking up angling ~ especially the younger members of society, who are the future exponents of our sport?

 

Cheers

Steve

[barry luxton]

It is so wonderful to see all those narrow little minds at work.

 

Read the whole white paper, can you not see any positives in there? The whole of the white paper is what will deliver benefits to the marine environment, and thus to RSA.

 

Yes we know they are going to suggest licences, it is hardly a surprise.

 

The White Paper covers a lot of ground. In it there is a sea change in attitudes to the way that the marine environment is going to be managed. But let's not look at that, lets keep a narrow focus and whine about licences (and probably bag limits).

 

We wouldn't want to be accused of broad mindedness would we

 

So you can see all those narrow minds working already Nick, you have a wonderfull forsight. This bill has only been out for a few days.

 

All i can see to date is rules, rules, rules, regulation, pain, pain, The whole ethos of rsa angling will change forever allright with this bill, we will have a rod in one hand with the rule book in the other, Defra and co have been around for years allready charging us millions for the pleasure, what have we got to date? Anyone with a woolly head is going to look at all this and say wow. Only the labour voters though, but i can see them as a dimminishing breed , hopefully. Can someone point me in the direction of a positive, no maybee's required. Maybee it's a long term strategy, not in my lifetime though. Still haven't got to the commercial sector yet. You might be looking at this with relish Nick as you want to become a f o? jobs for the boys, know what i mean.