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September meeting with Defra?


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#21 barry luxton

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 07:39 AM

What was the reason you became involved in the first place, Ada? I suspect it was the same as mine. You probably thought you could do something to benefit our fishing. Am I right?

If so, why did you pack it in? Again, I suspect it was for the same reasons as myself. You probably realised that fisheries managers had no intention of ever doing anything to benefit sea angling and that the whole thing was nothing more than a charade.

What I'm not sure of, is whether you also realised that the longer we keep talking and negotiating with these creeps, the more damage is being done to our fishing. If these people get their way, you won't recognise your beloved sport in a few years time. We will be regulated and managed beyond belief, and guess what, the fishing won't have improved as a result. The only thing our fisheries managers are capable of delivering is red tape. Better fishing is beyond their capabilities.

What grates with me is the fact that these "certain People" who claim to represent us haven't realised this yet and, therefore, don't appear to have even a basic grasp of what is going on. We know that they haven't been elected to represent the sea angling population. Neither are they qualified to do so. So what gives them the right to negotiate, on my behalf but without my permission, how, when and under what conditions I should be allowed to fish? The thought of Leon dictating how my fishing should be, makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.

If Leon seems to attract more flack than most, that's because he has put himself in that position. For some reason, he has decided that he knows better than everyone else and has to have a say in everything to do with the future of sea angling. No single person should have so much say in what goes on, especially someone who is not elected or qualified to do so. He simply has no right. No one does. I'm also sick of hearing how they are trying to secure the best "deal" for sea anglers. That's rubbish. If they wanted to do what's best for sea anglers they would forget their own political aspirations and put as much distance between sea angling and fisheries managers as possible.

You talk about democracy? Didn't the consultation on the RSA stragey tell our self appointed leaders anything? Sea anglers don't want it, yet they are still pushing it through. The difference is, any chance of opposition this time around will be kept to the minimum because it's all being done behind closed doors. Who knows what else they are pushing through at the moment? Whatever their plans are, with the way everything is being kept quiet, you can bet it won't be popular with the sea anglers they are misrepresenting.

I've been fishing since I was 3 years old and I'll be 46 in a few months time. I'm not prepared to sit back and watch a few misguided people and their very small, but vocal, band of followers ruin my fishing.


That must be a relief for you, all this off loaded, named name as well. Perhaps we can move forward now as we certainly have got the message. What with Leon retiring very shortly, also no one appears to be taking up the challenge, information from 'them' upstairs is going to be more difficult to come by in any event. Not sure if you are still writing for a mag as i gave up taking it, however as H A has said if your not in it you can't win it. So if you hate the idea of liazing with 'them' it puts you in a difficult position writing about things that are political. In addition you might even get fed the wrong information to pass on to us if the guys up 'there' have a sniff that you are anti and you are not joined at the hip as the saying goes. You state two things towards the end of your post, one is distance and the other is that your not going to sit back, perhaps you can give us a clue as to what you are going to do to make it right then.

The same as you from my point of view is i don't really need a political guy on me shoulder if i am twenty miles off somewhere, what can he do to make it better, obviously the answer is nothing, ziltch. Unless he is prepared to sink a lot of redundant ships and gas rigs. As i haven't seen any of that i'm of the opinion that, 'i only want to go fishing but they won't let me'. So do you ignore them hoping they will go away or what, you tell us.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#22 Steve Coppolo

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 11:23 PM

That must be a relief for you, all this off loaded, named name as well. Perhaps we can move forward now as we certainly have got the message. What with Leon retiring very shortly, also no one appears to be taking up the challenge, information from 'them' upstairs is going to be more difficult to come by in any event. Not sure if you are still writing for a mag as i gave up taking it, however as H A has said if your not in it you can't win it. So if you hate the idea of liazing with 'them' it puts you in a difficult position writing about things that are political. In addition you might even get fed the wrong information to pass on to us if the guys up 'there' have a sniff that you are anti and you are not joined at the hip as the saying goes. You state two things towards the end of your post, one is distance and the other is that your not going to sit back, perhaps you can give us a clue as to what you are going to do to make it right then.

The same as you from my point of view is i don't really need a political guy on me shoulder if i am twenty miles off somewhere, what can he do to make it better, obviously the answer is nothing, ziltch. Unless he is prepared to sink a lot of redundant ships and gas rigs. As i haven't seen any of that i'm of the opinion that, 'i only want to go fishing but they won't let me'. So do you ignore them hoping they will go away or what, you tell us.


That old, "in it to win it", phrase has been knocking around for a long while now, Barry. I think it's had its day. We should all know by now that there are no prizes up for grabs. Probably never were, if the truth were known..

Also, no fear of me being fed duff info, I don't hear anything at all from the RSA camp nowdays. It's the party line or nothing at all as far as they are concerned. Back patting comes before fishing and asking questions is a definate no no. With regard to my writing, there are other sources of information that are, thankfully, more reliable.

What am I going to do? There's not a lot any of us can do, truth be told, except ask plenty of questions and keep expressing our own opinions. It's better to do that than sit back and accept what someone else has planned for you, whether you agree with them or not. I intend to keep highlighting things that concern me with regard to the RSA lobby. I will continue to ask questions and, to the best of my ability, will keep as many people as possible informed of what is going on, via any means possible, in the hope that more anglers will start to ask questions, too. It simply isn't right that the same one or two people keep deciding, unopposed, what the future of RSA should look like. I also intend to take advantage of the advice to keep pestering my MP. Hopefully, he'll be able to ask some of my questions in parliament. I'll be very interested in the answers he gets.

I think it's too late to ignore them in the hope they will go away, but you never know. Maybe, when they find out that the majority of anglers just want to be left alone, (now that they've shown that they can't deliver anything of worth), they may be glad to leave us to it. I think they already consider anglers a pain in the ass. If not, and they really need to manage RSA, we should at least oppose everything they throw at us. Give them nothing and definately don't play into their hands by working out their strategy with them. By continuing to work with them, we are just rubber stamping ay future regulations and restrictions they might have planned. And it will be for nothing.

More scientific studies and research won't improve your fishing, Barry. All they will do is line someone elses pockets.
DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

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#23 glennk

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 11:58 PM

Step up to the 'ockey' GlennK sacn have a vacancy. You can then get the info hot off the press, might even be good for Steves political platform in bfm, you could feed him the news for us. Sorted.


Sorry to dissapoint but Im too busy with the important things in life. I figure I have to make the most of the excellent fishing we have around our shores before you lot screw it for us. You keep talking Ill keep fishing. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#24 barry luxton

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 02:13 AM

Sorry to dissapoint but Im too busy with the important things in life. I figure I have to make the most of the excellent fishing we have around our shores before you lot screw it for us. You keep talking Ill keep fishing. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:clap: :clap: :clap: show me some foto's of the decent fish you have caught then Glenn, not as your signature, spawney bass, but some good ones please. If you have the time that is. :P all we have darn south is herrings and dabs. :lol:

bigbass_2_.jpg 005_1_.jpg

Edited by barry luxton, 29 November 2008 - 02:15 AM.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#25 glennk

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 12:37 PM

I dont want to enter into competition with you Barry. If you catch good fish down there then thats brilliant Im pleased to see it as I always enjoy hearing of and seeing good catches.

Just to emphasis the point I was making Barry, if you are getting good fish then get out there and enjoy it whilst you can, just like me, because before too long someone might take it all away from you for no other reason than they thought it was a good idea.

If your generally interested in our catches further north then I'll point you here

http://www.whitbysea...embers-gallery/

Happy anglers, doing what they do best, catching fish with a smile.

#26 barry luxton

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:57 AM

The irony is, in all the time I've been fishing, the commercial fleet has not managed to damage my sport as much as these ****ers are about to.


Don't hold your breath too long, this guy is going to try. At present this one is doing the rounds, one guy who recons he reps for the uk fishing fleet, he is proposing, when they clear out the stock and reach THIER limits. They also want to stop the rsa from fishing. Recons also he has public support. He will either be concidered by the sfc's etc to be either stark raving or he will do a lot of damage to your's and mine fishing experiance, starting with the north sea. He is looking to restrict longliners and gill netters. I thought that was part of the sustainable section of commercial activity. Yet according to this post ( my interpretation) it's ok for the big boys to continue as is as they already have the controls in place. Yet he states that only 15% of the catch is landed, the rest discarded?

QUOTE;

obn ~icholls, chairman of
Thanet Fishermen's Association
and a founder member of the
~ew Under-Ten Fishermen's
Association (1 UTFA), says the
\iews on the way ahead for the
under -lOs outlined below are
supported by many North Sea
fishermen.
He told FN: "After our meeting
with the minister two weeks ago I
submitted to him as requested the
paper set out below.
"AsTom Brown stated in last
weeks Fishing News, the last
three years have been wasted (21
ovember 'Inshore outlook no better
next year'). Many good ideas have
been put forward by the inshore
industry, but just swept under the
carpet.
"It is difficult to see how any part
of the industry can have any form of
continuity with DEFRA officials in
London when we see so many staff
changes. We are now on our third
minister in 18 months.
"When three of us from NUTFA
met with the minister there
was over 150 years of industry
experience amongst us, while on
the other side of the table there
was no practical experience
and barely five years of fishingrelated
administration, yet for the
under-lOs and the non sector they
are our line managers.
"The paper in principle sets
out the ideas of many fishermen.
As stated, it is time for DEFRA
to form a working group and
take notice, and be guided by
experience.
"We believe this should be
tried as a pilot scheme in either
all or part of the North Sea and, if
successful, rolled out across all the
British under-10m fleet. It fulfills
many ideas of fishermen, the general
public, politicians and the European
Commission.
"To achieve a sustainable, no
discards fishery, you must do away
with quotas, which can never
work in a mixed fishery with
non-nomadic vessels. The technical
and conservation measures outlined
below will take care of both quota
and discard issues.
"Vessels will land more quality
fish, which will make the under-l0s
ustainable, and will dramatically
lower the mortality rate and reduce
discards of pressure stock species.
"The under-lOs would run on
the existing quota. The extra fish
would be derived through improved
management of discards.
"With the quota levels set as
they are, fishermen estimate that
in area IVc alone (southern North
Sea), only 15% of fish caught is
landed.
"\ e have been the passengers
for too long. The under-l Osand
non- tor need to drive DEFRA
Blueprint for
sustainable
future for the
under-l0s AN INSHORE fishermen's leader in south-east England has
submitted a proposal to DEFRA for the sustainable management of
the under-10m pressure stock fishery based on technical measures
and eliminating discards.
and the MFA towards a fair and
sustainable future.
"Join NUTFA and become a
driver not a passenger."
such as sea fisheries committees,
DEFRA, CEFAS, ICES etc.
Hours
Any hours remaining on a vessel's
licence at the end of the year would
be lost. No hours transferable.
Any vessel changing ownership
within the year would only be able
to fish the hours remaining on its
licence for that year.
Proposed measures
Hours at sea per vessel per year
Restrictions on hours at sea
would work well as this would
accommodate all vessels working
from the beach, tidal harbours,
rivers, inlets and main ports.
Monitoring of hours
Vessels would be fitted with a
tracking device. Sea fisheries
committees would be the local
monitoring authority.
The vessel, on leaving its base,
would switch on the tracker. This
would not be turned off until all
fishing gear was returned to base.
This system would work well for
all fishing methods, as it takes into
account soak time for netters and
long liners leaving their gear at sea.
Fish landings log sheet
A simple daily log sheet would be
completed and returned by the
skipper to the SFC.
Scientific value
The scientific advantages are:
Monitoring of hours by each
vessel
Automatic mapping of areas
fished
Fish landings
Year by year analysis of fish
landings against fishing effort in
hours.
The above information would
then be available to official bodies
Technical measures, gear
control and restrictions
Trawlers already have many control
measures and technical measures in
place such as the 300hp rule, square
mesh panels and selective trawls, and
being permitted to work only two
gears relevant to their horsepower.
Long liners should be restricted
b the number of hooks in the water
and gill and trammel nets by the
length of gear in the water
Tra\\iers and netters should have
an in rease in minimum mesh size.
Fish
All fish ~hould be subject to a
minimum landing size and existing
minimum sizes should be increased.
For example. ~orth Sea cod should
be incre~ed from 35cm to 45cm,
and bass from 36cm to 40cm.
All fish would have to be landed.
ICES areas
If a fishery in an ICES area were to
be closed due to the quota vessels
taking the quota in that area, then
all fishing for that species would
be stopped. This would include all
commercial and recreational fishing,
to produce no discrimination.
Policing
This would remain with the sea
fisheries committees, DEFRA, the
MFA and the Royal Navy.
Any person breaking the law
would be responsible for paying
court costs. The fine or fixed penalty
would result in a loss of hours from
the licence, which would have the
effect of reducing effort rather than
fishermen increasing their effort to
pay a fine.
Paperwork
Many fishermen and fishery
officers are struggling with the
amount of paperwork and everchanging
regulations such as
by-catch percentages and mesh size
combinations. The above proposals
would greatly simplify this for all.
Cost savings
Registration of buyers and sellers
'We have been the passengers for too long.
The under-10s and non-sector need to drive
DEFRA and the MFA towards a fair and
sustainable future.'
and transport documents would be
simplified by the use of a log sheet.
There would be reduced policing
of black fish landings and little or
no need for licence variations - the
latter measure alone would save 2m
to 3m a year.
DEFRA and MFA staff levels
could be reduced.
Leasing
Quota leasing would not now need
to be an option for the under-lOs, as
there would be more fish in the pool
uncaught on paper.
Large catchers and POs
There would be a small percentage
of vessels that may not be able to
work with these ideas, in which case
they may wish to join a PO.
Hopefully, pas would support
the under-lOs in principle on the
introduction of the above measures.
There would then be no further
need for the under-10m sector to
challenge the quota management
system or seek 'top slicing' of quota
from the pas.
All calls for a legal challenge to
the system would be silenced, saving
everyone's time and money.
At this point it may be possible
to consider the formation of a single
association to represent the whole
fishing industry.
Department of Social
Security and Inland
Revenue
As all commercial vessels would
be closelv monitored, fraudsters
would be stopped from exploiting
the fishing industry (an easy way of
gaining tax-free cash). Many doors
would close to these people and,
once again, reduce effort.
Carbon footprint
An even smaller carbon footprint
would be achieved, as there would
be no discarding and less fishing
effort folIo\\ ing the introduction of
the new technical measures.
Conclusion
For the ideas in principle to work,
the fishing industry, along with
DEFRA. the MFA, the government
and the European Commission
would have to make a huge
commitment.
In turn, the inshore industry
would have a sustainable future.
Technical measures would safeguard
stocks of both fish and fishermen.
John Nicholls said: "These are,
at this point, very basic ideas and in
many ways, my own thoughts but,
having spoken to many fishermen, I
believe it is the way forward.
"1 am asking DEFRA to form a
working group to discuss the above
proposals and forge the way ahead.
We can do no more. The ball is in
DEFRA's court."

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#27 Steve Coppolo

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 08:59 AM

Don't hold your breath too long, this guy is going to try. At present this one is doing the rounds, one guy who recons he reps for the uk fishing fleet, he is proposing, when they clear out the stock and reach THIER limits. They also want to stop the rsa from fishing. Recons also he has public support. He will either be concidered by the sfc's etc to be either stark raving or he will do a lot of damage to your's and mine fishing experiance, starting with the north sea. He is looking to restrict longliners and gill netters. I thought that was part of the sustainable section of commercial activity. Yet according to this post ( my interpretation) it's ok for the big boys to continue as is as they already have the controls in place. Yet he states that only 15% of the catch is landed, the rest discarded?


I didn't see the bit where he mentions anglers. Perhaps it's in a different paper?

Either way, the UK commercial fleet is a shadow of it's former self. Even at it's peak, it didn't manage to fish the sea dry, so I don't think they are much of a threat now. With regard to anglers, we wouldn't even be on the commercials radar if we hadn't proposed all sorts of bans on them. They have more important things to worry about than anglers. Any proposed restrictions for us are probably just tit for tat.

Getting back to the point of the thread; at least he is letting the fishermen he claims to represent know what he is saying on their behalf, so that if any of them don't agree, they at least have the opportunity to say so.

Edited by Steve Coppolo, 01 December 2008 - 09:00 AM.

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

Don't drink and drive.

#28 barry luxton

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 01:01 PM

I didn't see the bit where he mentions anglers. Perhaps it's in a different paper?

Either way, the UK commercial fleet is a shadow of it's former self. Even at it's peak, it didn't manage to fish the sea dry, so I don't think they are much of a threat now. With regard to anglers, we wouldn't even be on the commercials radar if we hadn't proposed all sorts of bans on them. They have more important things to worry about than anglers. Any proposed restrictions for us are probably just tit for tat.

Getting back to the point of the thread; at least he is letting the fishermen he claims to represent know what he is saying on their behalf, so that if any of them don't agree, they at least have the opportunity to say so.



This is the bit were it will affect both you and me:

Quote:

If a fishery in an ICES area were to
be closed due to the quota vessels
taking the quota in that area, then
all fishing for that species would
be stopped. This would include all
commercial and recreational fishing,
to produce no discrimination.

So he proposes to earn a living out of all of our stock, then call for the rsa to stop fishing because of his gains, yer right, that appears fair, to the detriment of the charter skippers as well. Then he is quoting that the general public are in favour, or this is what they want to hear as well, yer right.

Either past fishing efforts or global warming, did a good job on sandeel, herring,cod stocks previously, no doubt we will hear of the condition of them shortly when the anuall quota is dished out, mainly to the armchair fishermen and the minority overtens, this is what he wants to link the rsa with, come on. Would you want him reping you or acting to curtail your fishing because of him and his members.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#29 steve good

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:58 PM

Don't hold your breath too long, this guy is going to try. At present this one is doing the rounds, one guy who recons he reps for the uk fishing fleet, he is proposing, when they clear out the stock and reach THIER limits. They also want to stop the rsa from fishing. Recons also he has public support. He will either be concidered by the sfc's etc to be either stark raving or he will do a lot of damage to your's and mine fishing experiance, starting with the north sea. He is looking to restrict longliners and gill netters. I thought that was part of the sustainable section of commercial activity. Yet according to this post ( my interpretation) it's ok for the big boys to continue as is as they already have the controls in place. Yet he states that only 15% of the catch is landed, the rest discarded?

QUOTE;

obn ~icholls, chairman of
Thanet Fishermen's Association
and a founder member of the
~ew Under-Ten Fishermen's
Association (1 UTFA), says the
\iews on the way ahead for the
under -lOs outlined below are
supported by many North Sea
fishermen.
He told FN: "After our meeting
with the minister two weeks ago I
submitted to him as requested the
paper set out below.
"AsTom Brown stated in last
weeks Fishing News, the last
three years have been wasted (21
ovember 'Inshore outlook no better
next year'). Many good ideas have
been put forward by the inshore
industry, but just swept under the
carpet.
"It is difficult to see how any part
of the industry can have any form of
continuity with DEFRA officials in
London when we see so many staff
changes. We are now on our third
minister in 18 months.
"When three of us from NUTFA
met with the minister there
was over 150 years of industry
experience amongst us, while on
the other side of the table there
was no practical experience
and barely five years of fishingrelated
administration, yet for the
under-lOs and the non sector they
are our line managers.
"The paper in principle sets
out the ideas of many fishermen.
As stated, it is time for DEFRA
to form a working group and
take notice, and be guided by
experience.
"We believe this should be
tried as a pilot scheme in either
all or part of the North Sea and, if
successful, rolled out across all the
British under-10m fleet. It fulfills
many ideas of fishermen, the general
public, politicians and the European
Commission.
"To achieve a sustainable, no
discards fishery, you must do away
with quotas, which can never
work in a mixed fishery with
non-nomadic vessels. The technical
and conservation measures outlined
below will take care of both quota
and discard issues.
"Vessels will land more quality
fish, which will make the under-l0s
ustainable, and will dramatically
lower the mortality rate and reduce
discards of pressure stock species.
"The under-lOs would run on
the existing quota. The extra fish
would be derived through improved
management of discards.
"With the quota levels set as
they are, fishermen estimate that
in area IVc alone (southern North
Sea), only 15% of fish caught is
landed.
"\ e have been the passengers
for too long. The under-l Osand
non- tor need to drive DEFRA
Blueprint for
sustainable
future for the
under-l0s AN INSHORE fishermen's leader in south-east England has
submitted a proposal to DEFRA for the sustainable management of
the under-10m pressure stock fishery based on technical measures
and eliminating discards.
and the MFA towards a fair and
sustainable future.
"Join NUTFA and become a
driver not a passenger."
such as sea fisheries committees,
DEFRA, CEFAS, ICES etc.
Hours
Any hours remaining on a vessel's
licence at the end of the year would
be lost. No hours transferable.
Any vessel changing ownership
within the year would only be able
to fish the hours remaining on its
licence for that year.
Proposed measures
Hours at sea per vessel per year
Restrictions on hours at sea
would work well as this would
accommodate all vessels working
from the beach, tidal harbours,
rivers, inlets and main ports.
Monitoring of hours
Vessels would be fitted with a
tracking device. Sea fisheries
committees would be the local
monitoring authority.
The vessel, on leaving its base,
would switch on the tracker. This
would not be turned off until all
fishing gear was returned to base.
This system would work well for
all fishing methods, as it takes into
account soak time for netters and
long liners leaving their gear at sea.
Fish landings log sheet
A simple daily log sheet would be
completed and returned by the
skipper to the SFC.
Scientific value
The scientific advantages are:
Monitoring of hours by each
vessel
Automatic mapping of areas
fished
Fish landings
Year by year analysis of fish
landings against fishing effort in
hours.
The above information would
then be available to official bodies
Technical measures, gear
control and restrictions
Trawlers already have many control
measures and technical measures in
place such as the 300hp rule, square
mesh panels and selective trawls, and
being permitted to work only two
gears relevant to their horsepower.
Long liners should be restricted
b the number of hooks in the water
and gill and trammel nets by the
length of gear in the water
Tra\\iers and netters should have
an in rease in minimum mesh size.
Fish
All fish ~hould be subject to a
minimum landing size and existing
minimum sizes should be increased.
For example. ~orth Sea cod should
be incre~ed from 35cm to 45cm,
and bass from 36cm to 40cm.
All fish would have to be landed.
ICES areas
If a fishery in an ICES area were to
be closed due to the quota vessels
taking the quota in that area, then
all fishing for that species would
be stopped. This would include all
commercial and recreational fishing,
to produce no discrimination.
Policing
This would remain with the sea
fisheries committees, DEFRA, the
MFA and the Royal Navy.
Any person breaking the law
would be responsible for paying
court costs. The fine or fixed penalty
would result in a loss of hours from
the licence, which would have the
effect of reducing effort rather than
fishermen increasing their effort to
pay a fine.
Paperwork
Many fishermen and fishery
officers are struggling with the
amount of paperwork and everchanging
regulations such as
by-catch percentages and mesh size
combinations. The above proposals
would greatly simplify this for all.
Cost savings
Registration of buyers and sellers
'We have been the passengers for too long.
The under-10s and non-sector need to drive
DEFRA and the MFA towards a fair and
sustainable future.'
and transport documents would be
simplified by the use of a log sheet.
There would be reduced policing
of black fish landings and little or
no need for licence variations - the
latter measure alone would save 2m
to 3m a year.
DEFRA and MFA staff levels
could be reduced.
Leasing
Quota leasing would not now need
to be an option for the under-lOs, as
there would be more fish in the pool
uncaught on paper.
Large catchers and POs
There would be a small percentage
of vessels that may not be able to
work with these ideas, in which case
they may wish to join a PO.
Hopefully, pas would support
the under-lOs in principle on the
introduction of the above measures.
There would then be no further
need for the under-10m sector to
challenge the quota management
system or seek 'top slicing' of quota
from the pas.
All calls for a legal challenge to
the system would be silenced, saving
everyone's time and money.
At this point it may be possible
to consider the formation of a single
association to represent the whole
fishing industry.
Department of Social
Security and Inland
Revenue
As all commercial vessels would
be closelv monitored, fraudsters
would be stopped from exploiting
the fishing industry (an easy way of
gaining tax-free cash). Many doors
would close to these people and,
once again, reduce effort.
Carbon footprint
An even smaller carbon footprint
would be achieved, as there would
be no discarding and less fishing
effort folIo\\ ing the introduction of
the new technical measures.
Conclusion
For the ideas in principle to work,
the fishing industry, along with
DEFRA. the MFA, the government
and the European Commission
would have to make a huge
commitment.
In turn, the inshore industry
would have a sustainable future.
Technical measures would safeguard
stocks of both fish and fishermen.
John Nicholls said: "These are,
at this point, very basic ideas and in
many ways, my own thoughts but,
having spoken to many fishermen, I
believe it is the way forward.
"1 am asking DEFRA to form a
working group to discuss the above
proposals and forge the way ahead.
We can do no more. The ball is in
DEFRA's court."


Hi Barry
I read that in the fishing news, same old blah blah blah, if he gets his way I will be doing more paper work than fishing and just to give them more information so as they can use it against us

The legal bit is getting boring, same old threats , same old hot air

I bet DEFRA will throw the ball over to the GREENS, as a trophy

#30 H.A.

H.A.

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 11:45 PM

Steve's at the sharp end ....

I'm slightly involved at the light end.

I care for him.
He thinks I'm a 'tosser'.
I agree with him ... simply because the 'controllers' understand now't!

They really don't.

Put Steve and me in charge of inshore fisheries (from some different aspects) and we'd sort it in days rather than months. :D

I will never support commercial extraction in the way it has been going on, but I know folks from different parts like Suffolk to Brixham would like for fishing to survive in a sustainable kindee way.

Me and me fishun' and Steve with his livin' ... we shall survive.

Defra have big cuts coming ... then we shall have a say in our fishing.

My fish ( a girl - which I'm proud of from the beach and WAS returned) is important to me in the same way sustainable fishing is to Steve.
Posted Image

It's different ... that's all.

Adios or whatever the European is fer that.

<_<

Edited by H.A., 02 December 2008 - 11:31 PM.