Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Leadcore or Tubing ?


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#21 trevor2003

trevor2003

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gillingham Kent

Posted 19 July 2007 - 11:26 AM

I would rather see education.Give people the facts and help them use something correctly.

Thats the bit that i agree with most Budgie, more help/tutition to new or young anglers is the key to good future and safe fishing. there is a lot of people that won't give anyone the time of day or advice to help people. There will all ways be the ones that do what they want and have no respect, but I am sure that a lot of new comers to the sport would benefit from some good tuition in the first place, which will not only increase their catch rate, but will also benefit fish safety.

#22 Errrm

Errrm

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 646 posts

Posted 19 July 2007 - 11:58 AM

I just dont see why anything should be left in the fish full stop!


I don't fish for cap that often but how if the hook length breaks can nothing be left in the fish? I would assume the best that you can do it use a barbless hook which should pull out when the pressure it released or am I missing something, or is this what you mean?

Errrm

#23 DanDanUK

DanDanUK

    Junior Member

  • New Member
  • Pip
  • 13 posts
  • Location:Leeds, UK

Posted 19 July 2007 - 05:21 PM

Hurray for sarcasm <_< some of you guys are origional

anyway maybe i could have re worded it differently but i won't bother going back and doing so seen as some of you may feel i'm trying to crawl back out of what i said, but anyway i like to use lead core and i use it safly and have done for a couple of years now never once have i had a snap off never once have i had any problem with it, end of the day it does the job for me and i feel i use it correctly if it was as unsafe as some of you feel it is why is it permited ( not on all fisherys but most ) why do they sell it in the tackle shops we use ?

yes seen as non of you have exact proof this is unsafe and is damaging towards fish then all it boils down to is personal prefrence i prefer to use lead core some of you don't ! and until it's banned and illegal to use i shall continue to use it in the mannor i have been using it safe and correctly ! :thumbs:

Love Dan

X

#24 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,060 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ashford,Kent
  • Interests:Fishing,Photography,Internet

Posted 19 July 2007 - 11:51 PM

I don't fish for cap that often but how if the hook length breaks can nothing be left in the fish? I would assume the best that you can do it use a barbless hook which should pull out when the pressure it released or am I missing something, or is this what you mean?

Errrm


I wrote a big bit on this whole safety issue but cant get to it to post it at the moment!

Basicly I see that there is no reason why tackle should break or be broke when snagged if good angling is used.All the problems that can cause tackle to be left behind either in fish or in the water can be quite simply avoided.

Name a few and try me if you want!
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#25 Errrm

Errrm

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 646 posts

Posted 20 July 2007 - 09:08 AM

I wrote a big bit on this whole safety issue but cant get to it to post it at the moment!

Basicly I see that there is no reason why tackle should break or be broke when snagged if good angling is used.All the problems that can cause tackle to be left behind either in fish or in the water can be quite simply avoided.

Name a few and try me if you want!


Ah ok I understand what you're saying now and agree, if you can get to that write up at another time it would be interesting to read.

#26 RobStubbs

RobStubbs

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,235 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Herts, England
  • Interests:fishing,photography, astronomy, football, target shooting

Posted 20 July 2007 - 01:40 PM

Basicly I see that there is no reason why tackle should break or be broke when snagged if good angling is used.All the problems that can cause tackle to be left behind either in fish or in the water can be quite simply avoided.

Name a few and try me if you want!


Yep but bad angling is common and you can't always afford to allow for it. If all angling was good then we wouldn't have any rules at all, cos we wouldn't need them. Unfortunately this is the real world, not fantasy and rules are required to 'police' the bad. It isn't only anglers that are bad - land / lake owners can be just as guilty and they can bring in stupid rules based on ill informed comments and miss understood 'facts'.

Rob.

#27 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,060 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ashford,Kent
  • Interests:Fishing,Photography,Internet

Posted 20 July 2007 - 02:13 PM

Yep but bad angling is common and you can't always afford to allow for it. If all angling was good then we wouldn't have any rules at all, cos we wouldn't need them. Unfortunately this is the real world, not fantasy and rules are required to 'police' the bad. It isn't only anglers that are bad - land / lake owners can be just as guilty and they can bring in stupid rules based on ill informed comments and miss understood 'facts'.

Rob.


I cant argue against that Rob.Rules and restrictions aere most likely the only easy if not only way of preventing the idiot factor (but then do the idiots take any notice of such any way?) Would just like the real facts to be presented for all so the non idiots arnt mislead and can make their own minds up....something lacking a lot in modern day carping.
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#28 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,060 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ashford,Kent
  • Interests:Fishing,Photography,Internet

Posted 20 July 2007 - 02:16 PM

Ah ok I understand what you're saying now and agree, if you can get to that write up at another time it would be interesting to read.


Here you go its a bit dated now maybe but in general I still think it rings true- (I will just post it as the reply was wrote to keep it easy)


“SAFE RIGS”

Dens comment on the discharging of leads is a good point. It doesn’t make the rig "safe" in my opinion but merely minimises the potential damage caused by a broken line. Maybe saf"er" rig is a better description? However the mere fact that anglers (especially carp anglers) accept that there can be a problem and try to resolve it is creditable. It is a shame that many though still don’t really give it much thought, think that using "fashionable" "safe" rigs that still leave line/hooks in either a fish or just the water itself is acceptable AND still have the neck to take the moral high ground!

Rabster, I will try to explain my views on this subject so my original post appears clearer. This will take some length of post so please excuse me.

Other than obviously dangerous rigs which by virtue of their construction or components used will cause damage/death to fish the main danger is clearly caused by the main line breaking. This can come about for three main reasons the line breaking on the cast, the angler being forced to break the line or the fish breaking it. I will discuss each of these individually but in all of these situations, regardless of the use of "safe" rigs the fish is still left with a hook in it (and more potentially a problem, as already mentioned by Den) towing a length of line. If you think about it this could be anything from a few inches up to many, many yards.

Taking the first case of the line breaking on the cast. There are a couple of reasons that this can happen but all in my opinion are avoidable. The use of to light a line with too powerful a cast can cause the line to snap. A shock leader (although in itself being a potential problem" can easily solve this. The only problem with the use of a shock leader is if the main line itself breaks. In this situation the shock leader or more accurately the knot joining it to the main line can prevent a lot of the so-called "safe" rigs working i.e. falling apart. The mainline breaking (when using a shock leader) will not be caused by the initial reason i.e. too powerful a cast snapping the lighter main line.

Another reason the main line can break on the cast is if the reels bail arm closes mid cast. This problem is now very rare on modern "big pit" style carp reels as most come from a beach fishing background where this has been a long standing problem and subsequently solved. You have this problem then simply change your reel!

The only other way the mainline can snap in mid cast is if a knotted tangle of line catches in a ring. Some times happens with mono if there is very bad line twist in it or more commonly with braid if it isn’t loaded correctly or is poor make. Either way both are easily avoidable with correct selection and use of tackle.

Another casting related problem is the line wrapping around the tip. Normally the line wrapping around the tip prior to casting results in a ripped ring or broken tip at worst with a shock leader. But take a simple tip from the long range beach angler and before you cast just pull on the line through the rings to check all is free.

Another way the main line can break is if the angler himself is forced to pull for a break. This obviously will only happen if either a hooked fish snags the line or the angler places his rig into a snag from which he hasn’t got enough line strength to remove it from. Rabster asks if I’m suggesting that we shouldn’t fish in these sorts of areas or situations. I will cover my view on this later. In my view a lot of snag fishing is carried out very poorly these days. For a start tackle selection is totally at odds with the traditional (and I hasten to add proven) soft rod /heavy line set up I was taught to use and always have most successfully. The modern approach of powerful rod and high strength line merely rips mouths and loses fish as far as I can see. A strong line and soft hook (more of this in a bit!) used on a light through action rod is the way. By light rod I mean no more than 1 3/4lb and strong line around 15lb!No line is given and the only buffer is the light rod. Once hooked the angler simply walks backward leading the fish away from the snag. One draw back that might put the modern carper off is that you can realistically only do this by staying awake and being on your rod/rods! But it does work. A potential problem with this though is hook pulls and resulting damage. In reality I have found the dodge I use for the next problem avoids this. This being the problem of the angler himself getting his rig stuck and being forced to pull for a break. To overcome this I have used the pike angler’s dodge of always making sure the hooks I am using will straighten before the line breaks! I can here you all worrying about using a hook that will straighten out! In practice you will find that you will struggle (in fact not be able to) break 15lb line by pulling using your rod. If you care to try it you will find that with one hand on the rod (any rod) and one on the reel you will struggle to pull much more than 11lb for any length of time. Don’t believe me go try it! A direct pull on the line is what’s needed. So as long as you can just straighten the hook with a direct pull you wont ever do it whilst using the rod i.e. whilst playing a fish.

The other common (and far more problematical) way the main line can break is caused by what is really both the angler and the fishes combined effort! And that is if the line wears through on being rubbed over a gravel bar or other similarly abrasive snag. This is more of a problem for the long range angler than the snag fisherman. When fishing at extreme ranges on many gravel pits your line can be laying over a raised gravel bar or in fact several. When a fish takes both it and the angler are/can pull the line over these bars resulting in the line wearing, fraying and subsequently breaking. It was this very problem which first caused me to look into the whole issue of “safe” rigs. The first line of development was to use more abrasion resistant materials as “snag”/”rubbing” leaders to avoid the line being worn in the first place. A Kevlar material used for the strings on modern high performance hunting bows (as in bow and arrow) was the best we found (this was well before Dave Chilton started looking in skips and the days of Kryston!). It wasn’t 100% though so the next line was to combine it with a rig that if the line did go would prevent the problem of the fish trailing the hook, hook link, bomb, shock leader, snag leader and cut off main line! Best we could do was a rig that only left a short hook link with its hook and swivel. Still not ideal but at least that’s all it left. Still enabling the use of shock or snag leaders (that prevent a lot more problems than they can potentially cause) safely and not just ditching the lead still leaving several rig components and unascertainable length of line. The rig can be seen here-

http://www.anglers-n...gs.htm#cvsafety

It became quite popular at its time and even had a commercial version (which I must admit was better!) made. Even though it worked very well and the rig was only really designed as a “belt and braces” approach if the leader set up failed I was never really y 100% comfortable that I could potentially be 1. Losing a fish! and more importantly 2. Leaving a hook in one.

This has eventually brought me to the question of should we fish in potentially difficult swims or use tactics where any of the previously discussed problems could happen? I feel that all of the potential problems can be avoided using the dodges described. The use of good angling being the true answer not a wonder rig and certainly not accepting the leaving of gear in a fish as an acceptable thing BUT when push comes to shove and you do find your self in that rare situation that you are still losing/damaging fish you must use real good angling and simply just not fish this place or way. These situations are that rare though that its not going to spoil anyone’s angling to leave them alone but failure to do so will spoil everyone’s by spoiling their chance to catch a fish in pristine condition
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#29 poledark

poledark

    Member

  • Anglers' Net Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,682 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canterbury Kent
  • Interests:Fishing, Photography,computing,making Steam Loco's

Posted 20 July 2007 - 10:36 PM

This is amazing....simple fact is that sometime or other and for whatever reason your line will snap. If you are using leadcore then a fish can/will/and actually do ((I have landed at least 3 fish this year towing leadcore), end up dragging it around.

Tubing will slip off and leave just the line being towed (had a few of them as well this year)


Lesser of 2 evils is to use tubing, but then it is a bit more difficult to set up or change rigs with tubing, isn't it, and when half the new generation can't even tie up their own rigs, leadcore with its loops already tied for them is ideal..............pure laziness..

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul.................. 

for all you Spodders.       https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic


#30 trevor2003

trevor2003

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gillingham Kent

Posted 21 July 2007 - 07:38 AM

This is amazing....simple fact is that sometime or other and for whatever reason your line will snap. If you are using leadcore then a fish can/will/and actually do ((I have landed at least 3 fish this year towing leadcore), end up dragging it around.

Tubing will slip off and leave just the line being towed (had a few of them as well this year)
Lesser of 2 evils is to use tubing, but then it is a bit more difficult to set up or change rigs with tubing, isn't it, and when half the new generation can't even tie up their own rigs, leadcore with its loops already tied for them is ideal..............pure laziness..

Den

Why the difficulty changing rigs??? just put a quick link clip on your swivel, so you can just take your rig off, great for changing rig types, but even better for fishing stick mixes. Rig tube ,tail rubber, lead and lead clip all stay on, so no problem at all.