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DEFRA's 20 Year Vision

Leon Roskilly

By Leon Roskilly
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Jaffa Member

Jaffa

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Joined: 8-September 03

From: An island between Selsey and Portsea Island

Member No.: 4,188

 

 

 

 

Well, commercial fisherman or RSA, don't expect too much.

 

I've just read one of the biggest pieces of govt. drivel I've read for a long time.

 

Put a bunch of fresh grads into the civil service, tell them to bodge together a non-committal piece of non-joined up writing about things they know precious little about and this is what you get.

 

One re-occurring theme is -

'sharing the cost of science, fisheries management and enforcement.'

Regarding what???? The gross salaries of Whitehall civvies who come up with this dross?

 

Has anyone seen anything about how long it took the English fishery office to adapt when the Humber ports lost the Icelandic grounds? I guess they must have had a big presence when it was in its heyday but what were they doing a couple of years later?

 

At that time the Scots "inshore" fleet were busy developing new techniques, learning how to get finance and taking a punt on filling the gap (with enormous sucess in many cases), but IME the enforcement side was weak because the focus of the civil service was still on the the Humber. It was my impression that Humber trawler owners, even though they had become unimportant to fish stocks, still carried way more clout in cozy little meetings with civil servants and MP's. That was just my impression, but a fact was that ,often, the first a front line fishery officer in Aberdeen or Peterhead (the main Europeon landing ports then) during the 1980's would hear of changes to legislation was through the newspapers.

 

IMHO MAFF were at war with DAFS for power, both fishermen and fishstocks lost out, and a ton of money got spent achieving absolutely nothing. For example, when the haddock quotas were introduced, we were given radio scanners so that we could listen in to boats chat but we were not allowed to act on anything we heard !:D We also got nice new logbooks in which to record what used to be honest accounts of fishing trips but were now tom and jerry cartoon scripts. Gawd help the scientists from then on....

 

At the start of the haddock quotas, it just so happened that a lot of the fleet were pair trawling (often family affairs with say a brother in each boat) so funnily enough they soon clocked on to make sure that even when single boat trawling they maximised quotas in the same way by saying they had been pairing.

 

I still remember the morning everything changed ; I'd done my usual round of the fish-market, chatting to skippers and finding out who caught what when, then logging it all. With some boats it was the Skipper you talked to, with others the Mate; either way you got great info. But that morning the Mate of a particular boat gave me the trip details and it turned out his version made them "over quota" . My superiors then marched down the quay (with no real evidence of course), challenged and threatened the skipper who of course denied everything.

 

Next week i get zero info from the Mate, the whole fleet has learned not to speak the truth to government and the fisheries statistics go out the window.

 

At least the civil service were seen to be doing their job when they challenged that skipper :rolleyes:

 

I note that all the big headline prosecutions, in Scotland at least, are now retrospective easy stuff. I'm told that in the case of the multimillion pelagic ones they paid tax on the illegal landings, and they were "tracked down" through following a legal papertrail. Gawd help us if they decide to become devious :D

 

Government and fisheries is really like sticking your head through into Alice in wonderland

Edited by Jaffa

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Leon Roskilly Member

Leon Roskilly

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Well who the hell was????

 

The same idiot who represented RSAs at the infamous BASS MLS deferment, perhaps ... SW Assoc of Sea Anglers aka friends of the NFFO??!!!!!!!

 

:angry:

 

The NFFO were there

 

http://www.sacn.org.uk/Conservation-and-Po...ss_Meeting.html

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

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On the bass issue Jonny Shaw will have to be seen to be giving some thing to the rsa regarding more and bigger fish or all the talk in the last couple of years and in the immediate future will mean nothing but hot air and a huge waste of taxpayers money. Unfortunatly he also cannot been seen to say that the eu is not working, where it seems the dutch who have an increasing fleet and the french don't give a toss anyway will as usuall be the ones who will do well out of any increase in the mls. Don't think you will get much out of the eu in any event. Not worth holding your breath for i fear.

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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glennk Member

glennk

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On the bass issue Jonny Shaw will have to be seen to be giving some thing to the rsa regarding more and bigger fish or all the talk in the last couple of years and in the immediate future will mean nothing but hot air and a huge waste of taxpayers money.

 

So what about anglers who don't target Bass ? There is quite a few of us you know

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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

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So what about anglers who don't target Bass ? There is quite a few of us you know

 

 

Sorry Glennk.The bass issue has only been kicking around this year when bradshaw deffered it. The tope one for a lot longer, however, the bass issue appears to be the first in line according to our Jonney, so as he met with the rsa reps and commercial yesterday and also indicated a quick desision we must asume that he is going to sort this out first in my mind. Then there is the tope issue etc. In all he has a lot of work on his desk to keep his pension fund happy. please understand i only target the bass a few times in the year, the cod etc are just as important to me. Can't wait to see what this new broom will get up upto seeing that there could be an election pretty soon, so he will need to keep the masses happy.

Edited by barry luxton

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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bobdurauntti Member

bobdurauntti

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Can't wait to see what this new broom will get up upto seeing that there could be an election pretty soon, so he will need to keep the masses happy.

 

With over 1 million anglers thats a weighty number of votes, if he gets this wrong and labour decide to go for an early election, could they be heading for an early bath. For the first time, the way I vote will be determined by how the new minister peforms in the near future. If he fudges the relevent issues, then it is time IMHO to give the opposition an opportunity to put things right. At least they have said they will not bend over backwards and continue to take it up the kyber from Johnny foreigner. If that means sharing UK stocks with UK fishermen that is a damn sight better than sharing UK stocks with UK fishermen, dutch, french, belgian, danish, german, spanish, portugeuse etc.

 

I would anticipate that given sea anglers have a higher profile, and a greater interest, many would be thinking similarly. So watch this space, they (DEFRA) have an opportunity, its up to them how that pans out for the government. What a shame if our friendly sweaty only had 4 months as PM after standing in the queue behind phoney Blair for the last decade.

 

We have a good chance of dictating who gets into government at the next election, its up to the minister to decide how long he stays there.

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H.A. Member

H.A.

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Some relevant thoughts there, Bob.

 

Personally, I can't see the 1 m anglers votes spread over the country making a lot of difference to the outcome of the election. But we lose nothing by using the 'hustings' to make a few points about our concerns.

 

About the only thing which would see me join ranks with the commercial fishermen would be a joint protest against some CF/EU/Defra policies; in particular the 'right immemorial' for Belgie's etc to fish our 12 mile zone.

 

What worries me more than anything is having people in power (Departmentally as well as Secretary's of State) who know sod all about the issues and are adept at airy-fairy, political contriving and whitewashing and actually get nothing constructive done!

 

I stand by what I said earlier .....

 

We've got a monstrous layer of bureaucracy in place of effective government today.

 

I have recent experience of SFC Byelaws which take 18 months-2 years to get through locally only to have a Richard Caput MP decide not to put his sig to it!

 

:angry:

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steve pitts Member

steve pitts

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Posted (edited)
Well who the hell was????

 

The same idiot who represented RSAs at the infamous BASS MLS deferment, perhaps ... SW Assoc of Sea Anglers aka friends of the NFFO??!!!!!!!

 

:angry:

 

Hi Ada

 

The Minister chaired the meeting

 

Representing CEFAS

Mike Smith

 

Representing DEFRA

Trevor Hutchins

Anthony Hynes

 

Representing the commercial sector were:-

David Pessel

Barrie Deas

John Butterwith

Paul Trebilcock

 

Representing the RSA sector were:-

Bob Cox

Malcolm Gilbert

Sean O'Driscoll

David Rowe (NFSA)

John Leballeur.

 

The Chairman of the SWASA (who had previously met Bradshaw along with the Bass Action Committee ) wasn't in attendance.

 

CEFAS appeared to be working from out of date migration and spawning pattern stats, despite the recent bass tagging study being their project and there was some acknowledgement from the commercial side that the trawl bycatch of bass under the current mls of 36 cm was already a problem in some areas and that this needed to be addressed.

 

RSA side reminded the Minister that the mls consultation Regulatory Impact Assessment confirmed that 45cm was the optimum mls for future best value across the commercial and recreational sectors.

The commercial claim - that 80% of bass caught in UK waters are caught by foriegn vessels was not substatiated and refutted by the tagging evidence that 90% of bass caught within the UK limit are caught by UK vessels or anglers.

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited by steve pitts
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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

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Posted
there was some acknowledgement from the commercial side that the trawl bycatch of bass under the current mls of 36 cm was already a problem in some areas and that this needed to be addressed.

 

RSA side reminded the Minister that the mls consultation Regulatory Impact Assessment confirmed that 45cm was the optimum mls for future best value across the commercial and recreational sectors.

The commercial claim - that 80% of bass caught in UK waters are caught by foriegn vessels was not substatiated and refutted by the tagging evidence that 90% of bass caught within the UK limit are caught by UK vessels or anglers.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

According to the above, it doesn't take a lot of working out what the decision should be. Still holding me breath.

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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wurzel Member

wurzel

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Quote

 

The commercial claim - that 80% of bass caught in UK waters are caught by foriegn vessels was not substatiated and refutted by the tagging evidence that 90% of bass caught within the UK limit are caught by UK vessels or anglers.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

 

Was that 90% of bass tagged were caught by UK vessels and anglers or 90% of returned tags were from UK vessels and anglers?

What over all percent of tags were returned ?

If the French pair teams don't return the tags how would that effect the out come of any tagging program?

I fish to live and live to fish.

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