DEFRA's 20 Year Vision

[steve pitts]

Was that 90% of bass tagged were caught by UK vessels and anglers or 90% of returned tags were from UK vessels and anglers?

What over all percent of tags were returned ?

If the French pair teams don't return the tags how would that effect the out come of any tagging program?

 

 

Hi Wurzel

 

This probably belongs one of the bass mls threads - but here goes....

 

I think that 5% of the tags (around 5,000 were used) were returned to CEFAS over the study period, but I have no idea how many were returned by French pairs - not that many I would guess.

 

From the CEFAS website -

 

Whilst 88% of the recaptures of bass tagged inshore were taken by UK fisheries inside the UK 12-mile zone and 3 % were reported from the offshore pair-trawl fishery, 59% of the recaptures of bass tagged in the offshore pair-trawl fishery were made inshore along the UK coast, and 32% in the offshore pair trawl fishery. Most of the remaining 9% of recaptures were taken by UK vessels fishing outside 12 miles.

Taking into account the likelihood of a tagged bass being available to be recaptured and reported (4-5 times more likely for bass tagged inshore, chiefly because they survive better than even selected pair-trawl caught fish) and the numbers of bass caught in the respective fisheries, an average of 40 fish tagged inshore were recaptured each year from the UK inshore fishery, and 5 fish from the offshore fishery.

 

This indicates that for every 9 bass that could potentially be caught in the inshore fishery around England and Wales in the period 2000 - 2004, one would be available to be caught by another country's vessel (fishing outside 6 miles). This suggests that the effects of management measures implemented in the UK inshore fishery are largely restricted to that fishery.

 

 

Landings of bass into England and Wales by UK vessels for 2006 totalled nearly 600 tonnes according to the Bass Action Committee. If that represents 20% of the total catch from UK waters (as claimed by BAC), that must put the overall catch (including foreign vessels) at around 3,000 tonnes.

 

According to the ICES Study Group on bass, the latest records for bass landings into France was 4,000 tonnes per year.

 

Are the French relying on fishing in the UK's limit for 60% of their bass?

 

God knows the French aren’t saints, but they do seem to feature in the rhetoric of those advocating doing nothing, rather regularly.

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited October 4, 2007 by steve pitts

[wurzel]

Hello Steve

 

Thanks for that.

 

Only 5% of tags returned, surely that means the overall take by UK vessels of the bass stock is a small percent of the fish available, if as anglers claim commercials filter out all the bass above 36cm where are the other 4750 tags?

If they are still swimming around the UK inshore waters and getting bigger where's the problem?

 

On the other hand if another 10% of them were caught by French pair teams during the winter and not reported it would up set CEFAS figures some what.

[bobdurauntti]

Hello Steve

 

Only 5% of tags returned, surely that means the overall take by UK vessels of the bass stock is a small percent of the fish available, if as anglers claim commercials filter out all the bass above 36cm where are the other 4750 tags?

 

That depends Wurzel on whether all the UK fishermen actually return all the tags they get. I wonder what percentage of fishermen return the tags. How many tags do you return each year? .........Oh sorry I forgot!!

[steve pitts]

Only 5% of tags returned, surely that means the overall take by UK vessels of the bass stock is a small percent of the fish available, if as anglers claim commercials filter out all the bass above 36cm where are the other 4750 tags?

If they are still swimming around the UK inshore waters and getting bigger where's the problem?

 

On the other hand if another 10% of them were caught by French pair teams during the winter and not reported it would up set CEFAS figures some what.

 

The feedback from CEFAS is that a 5% return rate is about average for a fish such as bass i.e. it isn't a carp in a pond or a whaleshark that dissapears to who knows where.

 

It could mean that the other 95% are still out there for anyone to catch, or it could mean that some were caught and the tags not returned, or the tags fell out, or the bass were predated, or maybe some just died.

 

But it may not have been the French and the French alone who caught some of those fish and didn't return the tags. There have been Scottish pairs and and English balloon trawls fishing well within the UK 12 and talk of some commercial skippers having discarded tags and the same with anglers too (surely just a rumour bearing in mind the reward for each tag and or just the data ).

 

As I said - the French are no saints when it comes to this sort of thing and they may well have caught more or less than 10% of the tagged fish and not returned the tag data. It's imposible to say, but if it was 10% then that still leaves 80% for you, me and our fellow UK exploiters, WE would still be the majority beneficiaries and a far cry from the 80% foreign vessel catch rate claimed by the BAC.

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited October 5, 2007 by steve pitts

[steve good]

With over 1 million anglers thats a weighty number of votes, if he gets this wrong and labour decide to go for an early election, could they be heading for an early bath. For the first time, the way I vote will be determined by how the new minister peforms in the near future. If he fudges the relevent issues, then it is time IMHO to give the opposition an opportunity to put things right. At least they have said they will not bend over backwards and continue to take it up the kyber from Johnny foreigner. If that means sharing UK stocks with UK fishermen that is a damn sight better than sharing UK stocks with UK fishermen, dutch, french, belgian, danish, german, spanish, portugeuse etc.

 

I would anticipate that given sea anglers have a higher profile, and a greater interest, many would be thinking similarly. So watch this space, they (DEFRA) have an opportunity, its up to them how that pans out for the government. What a shame if our friendly sweaty only had 4 months as PM after standing in the queue behind phoney Blair for the last decade.

 

We have a good chance of dictating who gets into government at the next election, its up to the minister to decide how long he stays there.

 

Hi bob

 

QUOTE/ We have a good chance of dictating who gets into government at the next election, its up to the minister to decide how long he stays there.

 

Thats it in a nut shell then, this countries going to be run by a bunch of pole bearing blood thirsty anglers that want the goverment to do what they are told in exchange for votes.

 

This is not a good way of conducting good fisheries management, and anglers have now put up there real colours, for all to see. to present your case in this fashion, you all deserve nothing. the miners strikes spring to mind

 

If all the anglers gave up fishing tomorrow the goverment would not lose any of the money you all spend on fishing because they know you would all spend it on something else, you are all being played for what you all really are nothing more than chess pawn in a game of chess, and you have all fallen for it

 

The real votes are with the greens and supermarkets

 

In the fullness of time all will realveal itself just watch this space

 

steve

[wurzel]

That depends Wurzel on whether all the UK fishermen actually return all the tags they get. I wonder what percentage of fishermen return the tags. How many tags do you return each year? .........Oh sorry I forgot!!

 

 

The last tagged bass I caught was about 15 years ago. The returns from a couple of soles and recently a few thornbacks were tagged locally only a couple months previous, which shows another flaw with the tag statistics anglers are using.

If the bass were tagged by English scientists onboard English boats fishing inshore waters how many tags were returned within a few months before they had time to migrate any where? From experience I would say several, perhaps it's convenient to miss that out.

I'm just pointing out that science is far from exact, one irrefutable fact is that one French pair team regally working 6 to 12 mile from the UK shore catches ( often in one haul) in one week more bass than I do in a year, and there is no way will I or any other commercial bass fisherman be convinced that a large percent of those fish have not migrated from the close inshore grounds of the UK. I don’t consider 6 to 12 miles as offshore.

[wurzel]

Quote

 

The real votes are with the greens and supermarkets

 

In the fullness of time all will realveal itself just watch this space

 

steve

 

Spot on! The rest is just work for civil servants (DEFRA) Their 20 year vision was conceived for the government to be seen by the greens to be doing something and to secure their jobs, they are experts at being seen to do something without doing any thing, except meddle and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

[H.A.]

Spot on! The rest is just work for civil servants (DEFRA) Their 20 year vision was conceived for the government to be seen by the greens to be doing something and to secure their jobs, they are experts at being seen to do something without doing any thing, except meddle and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

 

Koof me!

 

Wurzel and me in agreement!!!!!!

 

As fer Mr G-Good -

 

This is not a good way of conducting good fisheries management, and anglers have now put up there real colours, for all to see. to present your case in this fashion, you all deserve nothing. the miners strikes spring to mind

 

That's pretty naive comment, Steve, which bands folks like me as throwing our (RSA) lot in with Bob on sight of a single statement!

 

I've struggled for months to find ANY common ground with the commercial circus and now I've found some!!

 

Defra have difficulty distinguishing between rectum and cubitus!

Have no idea how to influence CFP for the good of UK fishermen and anglers.

Have executive staff who are spineless and wimps.

Have auxiliary staff who have no appreciation of the requirements of the commercial and recreational sectors.

 

Other than that, they are a jolly fine band of lads and lasses whose vol-au-vents are damn good fer lunch.

 

[Leon Roskilly]

If all the anglers gave up fishing tomorrow the goverment would not lose any of the money you all spend on fishing because they know you would all spend it on something else

 

Not quite true.

 

A lot of anglers are now going overseas for seome decent fishing, taking their spending money with them, to the detriment of UK businesses and the UK economy.

 

Meanwhile the UK is missing out on the revenue that others would be spending here if our Recreational Sea Fisheries were delivering their potential.

 

And when I don't go fishing because of the weather etc, I'll spend my time reading, digging the garden, or perhaps walking the dog, rather than spending money going fishing.

 

The more diverse an economy is, the stronger it is.

 

Losing the RSA sector wouldn't simply be a fiscally neautral propostition.

 

But if I decide not to eat fish, I can't stop eating, so I'll buy a pound of sausages instead.

 

So the money spent by purchasers of the products of commercial fishing would still be spent if all the boats were scrapped tomorrow.

 

Pie-makers instead of fish-processors, cheese-delicatessens rather than fish-counters, Tesco shelf-stackers rather than fishermen.

 

So economically speaking, anglers are much more likely to be missed more than fishermen!

Edited October 5, 2007 by Leon Roskilly

[H.A.]

shelf-stackers rather than fishermen.

 

Shelf-emptiers more likely ..... harness the natural aptitudes.