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Government dumps its fishy problem overboard


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#21 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 03:57 PM

Some recent questions asked in Parliament on behalf of anglers by their MPs

see:

http://www.sacn.org..../Questions.html

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#22 glennk

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 04:09 PM

Earlier this year as a SACN member I requested that the group canvass their membership with regard to pulling out of all relations and discussions with the government on issues like this, the marine bill and the rsa strategy. The result at the time was that SACN should stay at the table and the general messages from the group were that you need to be at the table to influence anything.

With the 1 main aim of bass anglers down the **** pan I wonder how many of the SACN members still believe you need to be at the table with these people ??

As noted at the bottom of the DEFRA press release

A Recreational Sea Angling Strategy will be published next month,


Remember this is the strategy that proposes to introduce a sea angling license and proposes various restrictions to inhibit the actions of us all. This is the strategy that could damage the livelihoods of tackle shop owners and charter skippers the length and breadth of the UK whilst threatening the fishing clubs and angling festivals around our coastline.

This is in no way meant as an attack on any individual but Is it not time for all Angling bodies and Reps to get well clear of DEFRA, Mp's And Government before its too late. Give them a 2 fingered solute and get the hell out of there.

#23 barry luxton

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 04:13 PM

Earlier this year as a SACN member I requested that the group canvass their membership with regard to pulling out of all relations and discussions with the government on issues like this, the marine bill and the rsa strategy. The result at the time was that SACN should stay at the table and the general messages from the group were that you need to be at the table to influence anything.

With the 1 main aim of bass anglers down the **** pan I wonder how many of the SACN members still believe you need to be at the table with these people ??

As noted at the bottom of the DEFRA press release
Remember this is the strategy that proposes to introduce a sea angling license and proposes various restrictions to inhibit the actions of us all. This is the strategy that could damage the livelihoods of tackle shop owners and charter skippers the length and breadth of the UK whilst threatening the fishing clubs and angling festivals around our coastline.

This is in no way meant as an attack on any individual but Is it not time for all Angling bodies and Reps to get well clear of DEFRA, Mp's And Government before its too late. Give them a 2 fingered solute and get the hell out of there.

I think you have a valid point, unless all of the rsa can lean hard on the likes of defra i can't see the point in dealing with them, waste of time and effort.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#24 glennk

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 04:27 PM

Its not the waste of time I'm really worried about Barry. Its the consequences of that waste of time that's concerning. Pointing out to a government like ours that there is in excess of a million shore anglers, each of which can be milked for 20+ a year whilst creating a whole new level of governmental bureaucracy is not the wisest of moves. Because of our divisions we are never likely to stand united so the Government can just do as they like with us with little opposition. A low profile would be a more appropriate tactic I feel.

#25 stavey

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 04:39 PM

Earlier this year as a SACN member I requested that the group canvass their membership with regard to pulling out of all relations and discussions with the government on issues like this, the marine bill and the rsa strategy. The result at the time was that SACN should stay at the table and the general messages from the group were that you need to be at the table to influence anything.

With the 1 main aim of bass anglers down the **** pan I wonder how many of the SACN members still believe you need to be at the table with these people ??

As noted at the bottom of the DEFRA press release
Remember this is the strategy that proposes to introduce a sea angling license and proposes various restrictions to inhibit the actions of us all. This is the strategy that could damage the livelihoods of tackle shop owners and charter skippers the length and breadth of the UK whilst threatening the fishing clubs and angling festivals around our coastline.

This is in no way meant as an attack on any individual but Is it not time for all Angling bodies and Reps to get well clear of DEFRA, Mp's And Government before its too late. Give them a 2 fingered solute and get the hell out of there.


hi glen hows the cod fishing this year? as for reps and such getting clear, i fear its a little to late they have there claws in now and are counting the money from the extra revenue they plan to get out of the rsa sector, we are doomed matey like you have warned in the past, i cant believe how naive i have been to think that replying to those consultation toilet papers that the bmp or even some of it was achievable doh, cheers...........
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#26 Ken Davison South Wales

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 06:59 PM

You have to be there to have your say, whether they take notice or not is an issue for them.

A few more emails like mine, a petition on gov site just as blunt should at least wake them up.

Now is the the time for gloves to come off, we have seen their response, so now is the time to go for the throat.

I will be starting face to face with my local labour councilor and grinding my way up the ladder.

Another good strategy will be to start talking to the opposition parties and stirring things up.

Walking away is still not an option.

Edited by Ken Davison South Wales, 25 October 2007 - 07:00 PM.

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#27 steve good

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 07:42 PM

Hi All

Because so many of you have worked so hard only to get this result I can only say that I feel for your disappointment.

Although you may not accept what I say, commen sense has prevailed.

My reasoning is this, firstly, regardless of what Dr Pawson says, the french catch large amounts of bass in the 6-12 mile zone that are between 36-40 cm, Dr Pawsons reserch on the take up of this size range was a small snapshot of one part of our coastline and only at one time of year

Secondly, the discard rate of under 40 cm bass in 80mm mesh codends would have been very high indeed, increase in codend mesh can only be done at EU level. The EU would not increase the codend mesh size on a sustainable fishery.

Because we fish in mixed fisheries, it would be differcult to get an increase in the mms for codends because soles for example has a mls of 26cm and to raise the mms to say 100mm from 80mm would mean the sole fishery would become unviable, so commercials Uk or EU member states would resist any increase in the mms, and thats the problem.

I believe Blair and Bradshaw needed your votes to win the last election, now for the reasoning above is why I say that a post election commen sense decision has prevailed for the betterment of the bass fishery.

The lesson to be leant from an anglers point of veiw is that you do really need to discuss in more depth and understand the way in which all fisheries and fishing methods interact and effect each other and commercials need to take anglers more seriously and give freely true information so as everybody can understand fully the state of play before approaching the dreaded men in suits.

This post is written in good intent, an honest veiw and is not meant in a derisery way

regards steve

#28 barry luxton

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:06 PM

Today mr shaw has given the uk recreational sea angler, nothing, more of the same is to come, does anyone think that the likes of him and defra can manage the rsa. They have nothing to give or to offer, there will be no benifit only for the men in suits and thier pensions, we hear what you say mr shaw. The recreational angler is not stupid or nieve with regards to fishing, they know what they want and it will not be acheived with these wasters. The commercial sector have thier cake and more, they have the big fish as and when they want it along with the juvenile fish that have not bread, to be used as fish meal, what is that about. There is a big differance between 'sustainable' and an improved fish stock. What the rsa were trying to acheive is more and bigger fish, lets hear from the nffo mouths what they think is way forward. sod defra and sod the french, they don't fish in our waters so why do they come into our equation.

Edited by barry luxton, 25 October 2007 - 09:19 PM.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#29 Jim Murray

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 10:53 PM

Anyone know what qualifications or experience Mr. Shaw has which could have helped him make his decision?

Note with interest he has voted "very strongly for the hunting ban"

#30 stavey

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 10:01 AM

Hi All

Because so many of you have worked so hard only to get this result I can only say that I feel for your disappointment.

Although you may not accept what I say, commen sense has prevailed.

My reasoning is this, firstly, regardless of what Dr Pawson says, the french catch large amounts of bass in the 6-12 mile zone that are between 36-40 cm, Dr Pawsons reserch on the take up of this size range was a small snapshot of one part of our coastline and only at one time of year

Secondly, the discard rate of under 40 cm bass in 80mm mesh codends would have been very high indeed, increase in codend mesh can only be done at EU level. The EU would not increase the codend mesh size on a sustainable fishery.

Because we fish in mixed fisheries, it would be differcult to get an increase in the mms for codends because soles for example has a mls of 26cm and to raise the mms to say 100mm from 80mm would mean the sole fishery would become unviable, so commercials Uk or EU member states would resist any increase in the mms, and thats the problem.

I believe Blair and Bradshaw needed your votes to win the last election, now for the reasoning above is why I say that a post election commen sense decision has prevailed for the betterment of the bass fishery.

The lesson to be leant from an anglers point of veiw is that you do really need to discuss in more depth and understand the way in which all fisheries and fishing methods interact and effect each other and commercials need to take anglers more seriously and give freely true information so as everybody can understand fully the state of play before approaching the dreaded men in suits.

This post is written in good intent, an honest veiw and is not meant in a derisery way

regards steve


Hi steve, with respect mate you can keep your sympathy to yourself (well from this rsa), yes you are right many have worked hard, some very hard, the system is corrupt and biased you know that everybody knows that, rsa's and rsa reps had a go to try and improve things for there hobby and i believe to some extent the commercial fishermens benefit (in the long run) but because of the system's rotteness and because the commercials are old hands at it and perhaps had a few old knave's in the right places, you won the arguement end of this story. trouble is though steve because of this you and the commercial fishermen as whole have just hardened the views of most rsa.s that you care lttle about fish stocks and only your own short term financial gains, but i suppose you can live with that cant you, cheers with good intent stavey..............
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