Government dumps its fishy problem overboard

[barry luxton]

Hi H.A.

 

QUOTE/ For God’s sake Steve, you seem to making an argument for the benefits of catching and marketing undersized fish.

 

No not at all it is only your mind that has wrongfully reach that concludion.

 

The problem is that anglers are to tunnell vision to set in their veiws and beliefs and do not or want to see the woods from the trees, I believe beach anglers have this problem more than most, they blame what they see from the beach there are other forces at play which they cannot see or except.

 

Wether you like it or not or except that any fishery is and will be only as good as its management allowes it to be, commercial fishermen will for the most part fish in accordance with management policy. This goverment does not manage our fisheries Brussel does our goverment only oversee Brussels management polcies, uk fishermen have no say in the matter. Under EU fisheries polies the UK fishing industy has been destroyed

 

The other member states have most of the quotas and trawl the UK 6-12 zone relentlessly if anglers want better fishing you all need to focus your attendions on the main driving force of fisheries management and polcies thats Brussels not London, until such times as your tunnel vision lasts you will only be weeing in the wind

 

steve

 

Thats the answer then, it's the eu's fault that there is no longer decent sized bass to be caught off the shore at portland, or could it be that the inshore stock has been flogged to death, confused.

[steve good]

Hi Steve,

 

I have read your post and the report, and again no disrespect but........................

 

The majority of the data originates where exactly?

 

Looking at the data it seems to be a cooperative effort between CEFAS and local commercial fishermen and processors, the data is soo good that for Scarborough there are no length data and everything is by weight, what sort of scientists are we employing here that to organise an assessment of size of bass, they don't take size measurements. So if it wasn't scientifiacally carried out and it was measurements from the fishermen themsleves who of course don't have a vested interest and are completely impartial!!!! What can we assume from the value of this report

 

Sorry but I guess when you could be looking at a shortfall for a time and you have an opportunity to counter that, if left alone you will take advantage, its the same as cooking the books. It seems to me that there is a liberal sprinkling of sciense fact and a whole bag full of sciense fiction. The report is not worth the tiolet paper it should be written on.

 

To base a whole argument against conservation of a stock as CEFAS have done on one type of fishing shows how much they are in cohoots with the fishermen, where are the measurements on gill netting and rod and line caught fish.

 

I suppose if we are honest, it hasn't made a big difference, because BASS and the others wanted 45cm to let bass spawn, at 40cm they still wouldn't have spawned so staying at 36 doesn't make any difference, its just been a long drawn out employnment exercise for DEFRA personnal.

 

Hi bobdurauntti

 

Cefas have for many years been measusing bass and weighing them and have weight for lenght tables, the fishermen have supplied pasted landing tickets which means the bass they landed by weight which is on their landing/ payment tickets have been graded by weight ie bass under a kilo, i-2 kilo 2-4 kilo and large which is above that. These past ticckets have been presented to the tax man and the tax has been payed on the profit. Cefas have been able to work out from their weight for langth tables what the discards will be by the under kilo size range on the landing/payment tickets there was no fiddle it was all above board hope this clarifies your veiw

 

steve

[bobdurauntti]

Hi bobdurauntti

 

Cefas have for many years been measusing bass and weighing them and have weight for lenght tables, the fishermen have supplied pasted landing tickets which means the bass they landed by weight which is on their landing/ payment tickets have been graded by weight ie bass under a kilo, i-2 kilo 2-4 kilo and large which is above that. These past ticckets have been presented to the tax man and the tax has been payed on the profit. Cefas have been able to work out from their weight for langth tables what the discards will be by the under kilo size range on the landing/payment tickets there was no fiddle it was all above board hope this clarifies your veiw

 

steve

 

Right,

 

that clears things up no end.

 

You just have to make sure that each individual bass conforms to the length x weight table and your fine.

 

Just one problem, not all bass are identical, not all bass feed and grow at the same rate, not all bass start or stop feeding at the same time. In my readings I have learned that bass stop feeding when the water temp gets cold and that they also only spawn and pack on weight when the water temp dictates. So a bass that hasn't fed for a while during winter might be undernourished and weight less than it would in the summer when it feeds well and packs on weight. So by your reconing these bass that if measured could be sized (>40cm) but their weight (according to the table) would have them below. I have seen this type of tables used on the continent for sports and game fish, and they are as accurate as you want to make them. To base a scientific study on this is absolutely scandalous and makes even motre of a joke these supposed scientists. We used to have some of the best, now it appears they make it up to protect fishermen.

[H.A.]

Steve

 

do your own nets discriminate between over and under 36cm fish?

 

Could they? Should they?

 

Do you target all fish above 36cm or could you still make your bass fishing pay by targeting only 45cm plus fish?

 

As a successful and long standing commercial S Coast fisherman, what do you think should be done (by whoever?) to protect stocks and increase diversity of year groups and sizes?

 

The problem is that anglers are to tunnell vision to set in their veiws and beliefs and do not or want to see the woods from the trees

Hey, that made me laugh

 

If only we had the wisdom of the netsmen, eh?

 

Amazes me how their own selfish priorities fade into the distance while their abilities to employ sustainable fishing methods and practice remains of paramount importance.

 

Such sensible, far-seeing folks, eh?

 

 

Tunnel vision??? Nah!

 

'Cod-end' or 'Drift net' vision more likes!

 

 

Edited October 31, 2007 by H.A.

[stavey]

Hi H.A.

 

QUOTE/ For God’s sake Steve, you seem to making an argument for the benefits of catching and marketing undersized fish.

 

No not at all it is only your mind that has wrongfully reach that concludion.

 

The problem is that anglers are to tunnell vision to set in their veiws and beliefs and do not or want to see the woods from the trees, I believe beach anglers have this problem more than most, they blame what they see from the beach there are other forces at play which they cannot see or except.

 

Wether you like it or not or except that any fishery is and will be only as good as its management allowes it to be, commercial fishermen will for the most part fish in accordance with management policy. This goverment does not manage our fisheries Brussel does our goverment only oversee Brussels management polcies, uk fishermen have no say in the matter. Under EU fisheries polies the UK fishing industy has been destroyed

 

The other member states have most of the quotas and trawl the UK 6-12 zone relentlessly if anglers want better fishing you all need to focus your attendions on the main driving force of fisheries management and polcies thats Brussels not London, until such times as your tunnel vision lasts you will only be weeing in the wind

 

steve

 

Hi steve

 

You and your like (commercial fishermen) had a chance to gain some respect and indeed some support from the rsa, but now you have totaly **** on that for good my friend, and now you have the cheek to ask us to campagn to the eu for your benefit my advise to you is to stop coming on here and taking the micky matey, cheers.......

[wurzel]

Hi steve

 

You and your like (commercial fishermen) had a chance to gain some respect and indeed some support from the rsa, but now you have totaly **** on that for good my friend, and now you have the cheek to ask us to campagn to the eu for your benefit my advise to you is to stop coming on here and taking the micky matey, cheers.......

 

 

Don't tar us all with the same brush Stavey

CEFASNS_sole_eval_minute_RDS_CMOB_2_.doc

[stavey]

Don't tar us all with the same brush Stavey

 

Sorry wurzel but i cant help it mate, excuse my ignorance but what does that cefas study outline or whatever? other than perhaps them saying that fixed nets are not realy applicable is that right? and perhaps thats what you are driving at? cheers..........

[wurzel]

Sorry wurzel but i cant help it mate, excuse my ignorance but what does that cefas study outline or whatever? other than perhaps them saying that fixed nets are not realy applicable is that right? and perhaps thats what you are driving at? cheers..........

 

 

It mirrors the bass, the science says that if you increase the mls for soles after a short term loss there is a small increase in catches of better quality fish, they also say in another paper that I seemed to have misplaced, that by doing so the breeding stock would be increased by 40%.

I suggested that with the backing of UK fishermen and in return for sensible and workable quota why not implement it and perhaps even get sustainable certificate for Dover sole eventually.

After several meetings with DEFRA it became obvious that they were a waste of time and for the plan to work it needed the co operation of the foreign boats fishing for sole there would be no benefit if it only applied to UK boats, so off to Europe I go and wasted more time, they have more than enough quota why should they agree to catch less fish was all I got, they also have a small fish culture that they have no wish to change , not only the fishermen but it also applies to the managers and government.

I believe that UK fishermen are willing to implement real time benefits to fish stocks but there needs to be an incentive and it must be implemented across the board.

 

I also believe DEFRA's use of the word sustainable is just spin.

[steve pitts]

I also believe DEFRA's use of the word sustainable is just spin.

 

With you 100% on that one Wurzel

 

It is quite clear that Defra couldn't give a toss about sustainability of our fish stocks, commercial livelihoods or RSA - self-preservation is at the top of their agenda.

 

I've just come home from an overseas angling trip to be greeted with this apology of a Ministerial decision and have decided that other countries, who have real fisheries management, can have my hard earned cash from now on.

 

I'll save my money for a trip or two abroad per year, rather than spend time and money on fishing for schoolies and lining the pockets and pension funds of Whitehall wa***rs.

 

Despite all of the recommendations contained within Net Benefits, Drew Report, Invest in Fish, Inshore fisheries review, Marine Bill white paper, Defra's vision (now there's a contradiction in terms) and various consultations to which I have spent countelsss hours responding to, we are treated to a display of outright narrow-mindedness, which is way beyond my understanding.

 

Mr Shaw won't get a penny out of me for a licence. Not because I am against licences per se, but I see no possible return for my investment and when I can support overseas fisheries managers with my licence money and get top-class sport as part of the contract, then they'll get my money from here on in.

 

 

Over and out

 

Steve

Edited November 3, 2007 by steve pitts

[stavey]

It mirrors the bass, the science says that if you increase the mls for soles after a short term loss there is a small increase in catches of better quality fish, they also say in another paper that I seemed to have misplaced, that by doing so the breeding stock would be increased by 40%.

I suggested that with the backing of UK fishermen and in return for sensible and workable quota why not implement it and perhaps even get sustainable certificate for Dover sole eventually.

After several meetings with DEFRA it became obvious that they were a waste of time and for the plan to work it needed the co operation of the foreign boats fishing for sole there would be no benefit if it only applied to UK boats, so off to Europe I go and wasted more time, they have more than enough quota why should they agree to catch less fish was all I got, they also have a small fish culture that they have no wish to change , not only the fishermen but it also applies to the managers and government.

I believe that UK fishermen are willing to implement real time benefits to fish stocks but there needs to be an incentive and it must be implemented across the board.

 

I also believe DEFRA's use of the word sustainable is just spin.

 

Hi wurzel

 

Thanks for the reply and i take back what i said about all commercial fishermen, ah yes i remember you telling me i think about this or it might have been a marine stewardship certificate thingy some thing similar to the hastings boys?? and i did right to defra supporting it and saying this should be "implemented" if ever you decide to give it another go wurzel or something similar? you would again get my support on the sole mls increase/extra quota idea for sure cheers and all the best.....