Sunken Float Paternoster

[Steve Burke]

Following on from my "Grand Day Out" report ( http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/Grand-D...d33-t80704.html ) I've been asked to go into more detail on my sunken float paternoster rig.

 

This has several advantages:

 

1) The depth you present your bait is often particularly critical when after pike - they're by no means always on the bottom. Additionally a bait off the bottom is easier for a pike to see, especially amongst weed.

 

By varying the tension you can quickly and easily vary the depth you're fishing without pulling the rig out of position. Increasing the tension pulls the float and bait nearer (or even onto) the bottom. Decreasing the tension causes the float and bait to rise in the water.

 

2) Varying the tension in between casts is especially effective with deadbaits (whole or part) as it gives them movement that's attractive to the pike. This can result in an immediate take. Indeed, one fish came the other day when I released the tension, the sunken float rose, and the line ran out ...... and continued to do so!

 

3) The rig is especially useful for positioning a bait in exactly the right place when there's a depth variation such as a drop-off or a bar. For instance, suppose you've a 6 foot paternoster link and you've cast onto a 4 foot deep bar just past a 7 foot gulley where you want to position your bait. Until you tighten up, the float will be visible on the surface (this is one reason why I like a red float – it's easy to see - plus it's probably attractive to the pike, especially when it moves). Now lift your rod, pull the whole rig towards you and release the tension again. If the float isn't visible you know you're now in the gulley.

 

4) Being a running rig, there's little resistance when you get a take. This may be important if you're on a heavily-fished water or you're after perch or zander, both species that hate resistance.

 

5) The rig is very versatile, and can for instance be changed to a leger in seconds.

 

 

The diagram below shows the basics of the rig, whilst the following photos show the components and how they're arranged.

 

 

 

The photo below is of the snap tackle plus the up-trace. On the latter is a John Roberts Quick-Change Leger Ring to which the paternoster link is attached.

 

 

Snap tackle

 

This should be at least 5 inches shorter than the uptrace otherwise bite-offs could occur, leaving the hooks in the pike. I make my snap tackles 10 inches long and from 49 strand wire of 40lb b.s. (do a search for the advantages of 49 strand wire).

 

The hooks are size 6 semi-barbless, and attached to each barbed prong is a John Roberts Predator Bait Saver. This helps keep the bait on the hook, helps me find the barbed prong (important at my age, especially when the rig's in the long grass!) and also hopefully attracts the pike.

 

Uptrace

 

This is 15 inches long and again made from 40lb b.s. 49 strand wire. At the bottom is a medium Duolock snap. This allows the snap-tackle to be quickly removed when you land a fish without the rest of the tackle getting in the way or tangling in the net.

 

It also makes it easy to replace the snap tackle if it gets damaged. Additionally, I often swap baits between rods simply by swapping the snap tackles around. There's then no need to remove the baits unless you want to.

 

Finally the Duolock also stops the John Roberts Quick-Change Leger Ring falling down onto the hooks.

 

At the top of the uptrace is a small (size 10) swivel. This is so small that the Leger Ring goes over it when you get a take.

 

A further refinement is to attach a small Duolock snap to the end of your reel line so you can also unclip the whole rig quickly and easily.

 

 

What goes on the paternoster link is shown in photo below.

 

 

Paternoster Link

 

This is made from a length of stiff line to avoid tangles – I use 15lb b.s. fluorocarbon. You want as long a length as possible to deal with deep water, but short enough so as not to be unwieldy to cast (although you can loop a very long length up with PVA if required). I suggest a piece equal to half the length of your rod, in my case 6½ feet as I use 13 foot rods. It's attached to the Quick Change Leger Ring by a Snap Link.

 

Running on the paternoster link is a red sliding bubble float. These are made by the French firm of Buldo and can be bought cheaply on eBay or in a few tackle shops. They come with a peg to fix the float in position but I discard this. Instead I use the largest size of sliding float stop. If you can't get this size you'll probably need a bead as well to stop the float.

 

The sliding float stop can either be positioned right at the top of the paternoster link so that you can fish the maximum distance off the bottom. This is the way I usually deadbait at Wingham as both my lakes are deep.

 

Alternatively, by moving the float stop nearer the weight the float will be sunk in shallower water. This is especially useful if you're trying to find a shallow gulley.

 

Additionally it prevents tangles with livebaits, especially rudd as they tend to swim upwards. In this case you'll need to position the float stop at least 15 inches away from the top of the paternoster link.

 

At the bottom of the paternoster link is the weight – I prefer a flat one as they stay put better, especially on a slope. It's important for the weight to stay put for 2 reasons. Firstly, when you tighten the rig it might move if you use a light weight – and the ability to exactly position the bait is one of the attractions of this rig. Secondly, if the weight moves the fish may feel the change in resistance and drop the bait. With a heavy weight the indicator moves instead.

 

Talking of indicators, bobbins don't work well with this rig. Instead I strongly recommend a drop-off indicator with a sliding weight as this enables the tension to be fine-tuned. I use a modified Fox Pike Swinger. For the reasons why see my review at http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/reviews/fox-pike-swinger.htm The line clip has been changed in the latest version but I haven't tried this, preferring the Gardner model.

 

The weight is attached to the paternoster link with an Enterprise Tackle Snag Safe Lead Clip. This ensures that if you get snagged the weight pulls clear. Obviously this is important for the safety of the fish (in particular a pike picking up a tethered bait is likely to become a dead pike), plus you don't lose the entire paternoster link.

 

To change to a leger rig simply unclip the paternoster link and replace it with just a weight. Mine are kept already attached to a Snag Safe Lead Clip.

 

I keep paternoster links on pole winders, making it easy to set up or tackle down at the end or beginning of a session. Just clip on the paternoster link, clip on the snap tackle and bait up.

 

It also means that the rig isn't as complicated as it first appears. You can of course vary the components to suit your own needs/ideas. However as you can see, every component has a specific use, and the rig is tried and tested rather than just dreamt up in an armchair.

 

Older hands will recognise it as a versatile cross between a Vic Bellars and a Colin Dyson sunken float paternoster. Moving the sliding float stop enables it to changed from one to another, plus the components have been brought up to date, especially regarding safety.

 

The only disadvantage is that its casting range is limited to about 50 yards. One of the reasons is that the paternoster link has a tendency to slide up the line during the cast. You could probably overcome this either by attaching the paternoster link to the Duolock at the top of the snap tackle (although the rig wouldn't be free running then), or by tying some PVA tape immediately above the swivel at the bottom of the uptrace. PVA tape might also be useful to fasten the weight and float to the bait. The closer together all the heavy components are the better a rig will cast. I must admit I haven't tried these dodges though as I haven't needed to cast far on my local waters. Additionally if the bait separates you'll need to wind it to the paternoster and this movement can be attractive to the pike.

 

I seldom see this type of sunken float paternoster in print, let alone on the bank. Most versions have the float on the main line and this isn't so versatile.

 

In fact, my own version is so versatile that I'm nearly always using it on at least one if not two rods. In fact, apart from when I'm using a drifter, I now seldom use a surface float when piking from the bank on stillwaters.

 

Most of all though, it catches me a whole lot more fish!

 

Edit note: I've mentioned this in a later post, but am adding it here for emphasis. This rig works with deadbaits as well as livebaits. I've found no advantage in fiddling around to get the deadbait horizontal, after all dead fish don't always float horizontally - indeed sometimes live ones don't! And half baits or even fish chunks work very well on the rig too, as can be seen at http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/Wingham...y-t1064490.html .

Edited November 18, 2010 by Steve Burke

[Newt]

Wow - great post Steve.

 

Could you please add a full size version of that first photo? It has some detail that my eyes just can't make out in the size that works as a hotlinked picture.

 

If you use the forum feature to store it, folks can either look or ignore the larger copy.

[JV44]

I use this rig to target deeper holes by overhanging trees from the boat on the Thames,sneek the boat into a gap in the trees and fish i right off the side of the boat maybe a couple of rod lengths out but use a heavier lead so [1] the flow does not move the rig [2] there is no chance of fish moving the lead on the take. as fishing lives tends to mean fairly savage takes and if they move the lead even a bit sometimes drop the bait but agree its a killer rig for Perch,Pike & chub and sure this would follow for stillwater to.

It still amazes me how close to the boat you can get takes esp when fishing close to overhanging trees rafts of rubish/weeds etc.

Have caught a lot of large perch whilst after pike with the baitrunner fished tightened right down to combat flow and yet the perch have nearly dragged rod proving there are no hard and fast rules when targeting certain fish.

I think it was newt that suggested that maybe if the resistance is constant they dont mind so much what are your thoughts/experience on this steve?.

As Steve has suggested i have used PVA String/Tape to coil up paternoster link to make it easier to cast but it helps if you know where the gravel bars and drop offs are to get the best out of the rig rather than chuck it out and hope Steve.

[Steve Burke]

Wow - great post Steve.

 

Could you please add a full size version of that first photo? It has some detail that my eyes just can't make out in the size that works as a hotlinked picture.

 

If you use the forum feature to store it, folks can either look or ignore the larger copy.

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do I use the Your Albums facility in My Controls?

 

I'll redo the pic as well and make the print larger and use upper case.

 

Would you also like me to e-mail you a copy?

[Elton]

Steve,

 

This would make a great addition to the rigs section of AN, too

 

[Steve Burke]

I use this rig to target deeper holes by overhanging trees from the boat on the Thames,sneek the boat into a gap in the trees and fish i right off the side of the boat maybe a couple of rod lengths out but use a heavier lead so [1] the flow does not move the rig [2] there is no chance of fish moving the lead on the take. as fishing lives tends to mean fairly savage takes and if they move the lead even a bit sometimes drop the bait but agree its a killer rig for Perch,Pike & chub and sure this would follow for stillwater to.

It still amazes me how close to the boat you can get takes esp when fishing close to overhanging trees rafts of rubish/weeds etc.

Have caught a lot of large perch whilst after pike with the baitrunner fished tightened right down to combat flow and yet the perch have nearly dragged rod proving there are no hard and fast rules when targeting certain fish.

I think it was newt that suggested that maybe if the resistance is constant they dont mind so much what are your thoughts/experience on this steve?.

As Steve has suggested i have used PVA String/Tape to coil up paternoster link to make it easier to cast but it helps if you know where the gravel bars and drop offs are to get the best out of the rig rather than chuck it out and hope Steve.

 

I don't recommend the use of this rig from an anchored boat, unless the boat can be kept absolutely still. I've never boat fished in a river so am not qualified to comment whether this is possible with anchors. However it can't be done on stillwaters unless you wedge the boat between poles stuck in the bottom.

 

The problem with a sunken float paternoster from a boat is that any movement causes tightening, and more importantly, slackening of the rig. This can hamper bite registration and thus lead to deep hooking if you don't get a full-blooded run.

 

In fact, I feel that this point is so important that I purposely left it out of the original post so that I could highlight it separately. The fact that it's been recommended by well-known authors (including one who used the rig as my boat partner) doesn't make it safe!

 

There is one possible way round the problem though. You could perhaps add an additional surface float that would register a take even if the line were slack.

 

JV, you asked about constant resistance. Yes, this is the key with perch. My experience is it's the increase in resistance that most causes the bait to be dropped.

[JV44]

I don't recommend the use of this rig from an anchored boat, unless the boat can be kept absolutely still. I've never boat fished in a river so am not qualified to comment whether this is possible with anchors. However it can't be done on stillwaters unless you wedge the boat between poles stuck in the bottom.

 

The problem with a sunken float paternoster from a boat is that any movement causes tightening, and more importantly, slackening of the rig. This can hamper bite registration and thus lead to deep hooking if you don't get a full-blooded run.

 

In fact, I feel that this point is so important that I purposely left it out of the original post so that I could highlight it separately. The fact that it's been recommended by well-known authors (including one who used the rig as my boat partner) doesn't make it safe!

 

There is one possible way round the problem though. You could perhaps add an additional surface float that would register a take even if the line were slack.

 

JV, you asked about constant resistance. Yes, this is the key with perch. My experience is it's the increase in resistance that most causes the bait to be dropped.

Only ever use the rig right next to the boat and boat is tied tightly to trees at bow and stern so no movement but key is right next to boat to aviod deep hooking by slack lines.

Float fishihed lives next to overhanging trees can cause more problems due to flow of river driving bait into the snags.

Sorry mate i didnt make myself very clear about stillwaters didnt mean boat fishing them just off the bank.

Understand what you mean about ledgering paternostering from the boat and no longer ledger unless again right over the side of boat on good anchor holds,have found that as long as you dont crash about in the boat you can get takes under boat even in fairly shallow water.

Just my experience mind Steve.

[Steve Burke]

Only ever use the rig right next to the boat and boat is tied tightly to trees at bow and stern so no movement but key is right next to boat to aviod deep hooking by slack lines.

Float fishihed lives next to overhanging trees can cause more problems due to flow of river driving bait into the snags.

Sorry mate i didnt make myself very clear about stillwaters didnt mean boat fishing them just off the bank.

Understand what you mean about ledgering paternostering from the boat and no longer ledger unless again right over the side of boat on good anchor holds,have found that as long as you dont crash about in the boat you can get takes under boat even in fairly shallow water.

Just my experience mind Steve.

 

Thanks for making that clear.

 

I agree with you about getting takes very close to the boat. Aren't they exciting too?!

[J.K]

Here you go Steve. Ran it through the computer. Feel free to save the image if you can. Or can email you the BIG version.

 

**Image removed and sent to Steve**

Edited January 6, 2008 by J.K

[Steve Burke]

J.K., you're a star! Thanks very much indeed!