E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[chesters1]

YOU might say that but its not what happened. I, along with many, many Remainers voted Labour. In common with the vast majority of Remainers I would not vote Lib Dem (unless it as the only way to keep a Tory out of my constituency).

 

My mere existence proves you are wrong I am afraid. You do no surprise me though, if there is one defining character of Leavers it is their ability to hold an opinion despite the wealth of evidence showing that the opposite is true.

So you use your vote to keep someone else out but get the crap from the party you use to do so ,you really are muddled and as labour said they respect the result of the referendum you voted out!?!?

 

The only two votes i have ever made was 'in' because at the time it seemed it was a good idea based on the time and 'out' when i got the chance to say it wasnt a good idea now.

As for elections i wouldnt aid the criminals that want to rule our lives so i dont help them do it by voting the scum in

Edited October 8, 2017 by chesters1

[chesters1]

No. I am very clear. If in my constituency there is no chance of my preferred party Labour getting in I would vote Lib Dem if the fact of doing so is likely to stop a Tory getting in. What is so hard to understand about that? If was an acknowledged tactic at the last election and widely known. Hard to see how you missed it really. If you'd like to learn more look up 'Progressive Alliance'.

 

FYI. It is our archaic first-past-the-post electoral system which leaves 70% of the electorate unrepresented that forces these tactics.

Strange but its your prerogative ,i my opinion its like voting in one pedo over another perhaps a pedo who prays on boys rather than girls but it changes little what you get is a pedo you never voted for a non pedo because of his cross eyes ,wierd Edited October 8, 2017 by chesters1

[big_cod]

Oh dear. ? Whats she upto now it's coming

 

Let's all gather behind her

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-secret-legal-advice-brexit-law-firm-matrix-chambers-emmanuel-macron-a7988466.html%3Famp

Edited October 8, 2017 by big_cod

[Huge_Vitae]

FYI. It is our archaic first-past-the-post electoral system which leaves 70% of the electorate unrepresented that forces these tactics.

Why don't we have a vote on proportional voting? Oh wait a sec, 'we' did, I believe the vote was for no change to the system, despite the number of lovelies and snowflakes bashing our ears for a change, but never mind democracy, which, according to you makes some continue with the same old, same old. Democracy is a term you seem to think, means getting your own way, everything else is undemocratic.

[gozzer]

How differently people can read an article! He's suggesting that Labour and Tory Remain supporters join the parties and try to persuade their leadership to represent them. What's wrong with that? There is currently no main party that represents the 48.2% who want to stay in the EU.

 

The only lie Clegg made I'm aware of was with regard to tuition fees. Otherwise they did a reasonable job of blunting a vicious Tory sword. What other lies are you referring to?

 

I don't think he's suggesting that the Labour Party have lied to their supporters. Corbyn's Labour have always been upfront about upholding the result of the referendum and leaving the EU. There has never been any doubt about that. (You might bear in mind that its possible to leave the EU but still retain membership of the single market, a la Norway, via the EEA and EFTA).

 

What is incredible that you chose to ignore the bulk of the article, the fact that voters have been manipulated by a very small number of extremely rich men. This is the crux of the matter. The (very) slim majority gained in the referendum was owned by these men and their lies. The electorate were both uniformed and misled.

 

If we leave the EU the UK will be so badly screwed that it is imperative we have a vote by an electorate that is informed, not one that has been fed lies. That is proper democracy. There may be some unrest but if we crash out of the EU in a way that seems likely with the Tories at the helm the ensuing chaos and poverty is likely to see a much more intense and long lasting unrest as people compete for greatly diminished resources.

 

Democracy is having an informed vote on the deal to Leave the EU. If the Tories crash us out then its crucial we have a vote. There may be many people who voted Leave who will understand the horrors of a hard Brexit and not want any of it. They should have a voice, shouldn't they? Or would you deny them? And as I said in my last post this vote would be accepted as unlike the last one the electorate would be informed.

 

Also, what is it you don't like about Corbyn? His policies seem sound to me (especially nationalisation of our crucial utilities) and no more extreme than those found in practice in countries like Germany, Sweden, Norway or Denmark... all very peaceable, educated and wealthy countries. In fact its the first proper Labour Party I've seen, a party that tries to work for the majority of its citizens. All recent versions have been merely pale imitations of the Tory Party.

 

 

I don't know how you can think that politics being controlled by money men is news. Don't you think that the currency rates are controlled by 'money men' ? Almost everything we experience is controlled by 'money men', either through direct action, or subliminally through advertising. They control most of the media, the markets, the banks, everything that we 'need' to survive in our materialistic society. I don't need Clegg stating the obvious, to make me believe it.

This is also why, although Corbyns wish list is nice to hear, it will never come to anything unless every nation on this planet decides that it's the way forward. It's a pipedream nothing more, a fairy tale story with a happy ever after ending, and I stopped believing in fairy tales many years ago.

Both sides were guilty of 'feeding lies' to the public pre referendum, and as I have said many times before, if the remain group had offered some real positives in regard to staying in, then the result could well have been different. They chose to use scare tactics instead, some so preposterous that they bordered on the ridiculous.

I've given my reasons for voting out, many times during this thread, long before you joined in, so I'll not go into it all again. It contains more repeats than the TV listings, so I'll leave that to others who seem to revel in it, and I will retire for now.

 

John.

[Huge_Vitae]

Don't retire now John, the campaign for Yorkshire Devolution has just made Sky News........

Edited October 8, 2017 by Huge_Vitae

[gozzer]

Don't retire now John, the campaign for Yorkshire Devolution has just made Sky News........

 

I'm already retired in the real world HV. I have to keep having a rest from some of these threads. I have to occasionally stop and breath in a bit of reality, before coming back to them. It is mental health awareness year after all.

 

The Campaign has been running on and off for years HV, even as far back as when I were a young'un. It's unlikely to happen, even less so if the proposed HS2 goes ahead. We will be further into the extended commuter belt for London, and will suffer all the pleasures of increased house prices, while still having much lower pay. It happened, on a smaller scale, when they moved the DHS building and staff up here.

 

John.

[barry luxton]

Huge_Vitae, on 08 Oct 2017 - 22:41, said:

Don't retire now John, the campaign for Yorkshire Devolution has just made Sky News........

 

 

Tis true, as reported here as well http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/864043/yorkshire-independence-autonomy-mayor-cabinet-yorkshire-party

[chesters1]

Could be a Yorkshire tea party

[Phone]

All

 

Those who prefer "exit". A position statement on Mrs. May please.

 

Our news is very conflicting without any "documentation" in either direction - stay or leave.

 

Phone