E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[gozzer]

Independent study by foreign bank (i.e, no axe to grind, unlike the Express) estimates Brexit will cost the UK £400b... that's many decades of £350m a week to the NHS!

 

You know who this is going to hit hardest don't you? The poor, the lower middle classes (who will become the new poor) and the millennials who (after already having had their right removed to live, learn, work and retire in another 27 countries) will be entering the job market at a time when there will be no jobs. Think the 70s...but a lot, lot worse.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-hard-no-trade-deal-agreement-leave-eu-single-market-uk-economy-cost-400-billion-pounds-a7994731.html

 

Have you looked up the history of this "no axe to grind" foreign bank? It's $1 billion fine for fraudulent actions, it's credit rating down grading over recent years? It's an International bank that would like to get a piece of the London action, I'd say it had more than a slight vested interest in Brexit. It's only an estimate/guess though, not like it's telling us what's going to happen with any certainty. Unlike you with your, "this is going to happen" posts. Is there any way you could add your crystal ball to the forum, then we could all benefit from it's magical powers?

 

John.

Edited October 13, 2017 by gozzer

[big_cod]

Breaking the British nuclear industry ready to move over materials away from Britain to Europe as that expect a no deal in brexit negotiations this will not go down well .

Edited October 13, 2017 by big_cod

[gozzer]

If the government would release their reports into the effects of Brexit on our industry and economy we will find out.

 

Why do you think they won't release them John?

 

 

David Davis faces legal threat over secret reports on Brexit impact.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/13/david-davis-faces-legal-threat-over-secret-reports-on-brexit-impact?

 

Why should they? You're the one with all the 'real' info' on the future of the UK, and EU, and no need to threaten litigation, you're only too willing to share.

 

I believe that the Government has been forced to show too much already, to the benefit of the EU non ​negotiators. I've never fully supported a Tory Government, but in this case, I'm disgusted with the way some members of Parliament, and the media have tried to sabotage the negotiations. Like May's speech, I agreed with much that she said, but the media, opponents, and yourself, decided it was another 'Miliband bacon sandwich moment', and played on that, disregarding the rest.

You just carry on stating your 'factual' accounts of the future, and I'll stick to stating what I believe will happen.

 

John.

[gozzer]

You think allowing the UK population to see reports we funded into the effects Brexit will have on our industry and income will affect the 'negotiations' adversely? Why would you think that unless the reports are damning?

 

If they are damning then we (and our parliament!) need to know before this inept government forces us into an economy-destroying hard Brexit.

 

And John, it does not take any sort of expert to see that removing the UK from the world's largest and most successful single market will damage our economy. Wake up man.

I don't know if they are damning or not, but, going on past evidence, whatever they are, the pro EU at Westminster, and in the media, will do their best to show it in the worst possible way.

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked Paul.

 

What do you see as the future of EU, and the state of the UK within it?

 

John.

 

John.

Edited October 13, 2017 by gozzer

[Sportsman]

To be fair John, I have seen an awful lot of Brexit proponents say things like

"Once we leave we will get fantastic trade deals with X,Y and Z. They are queuing up to do deals with us" based on little or no evidence whatever.

The little I know about negotiations suggests that it does not help if you enter into them looking needy or even desperate and that looks increasingly like becoming the case.

Maybe that is why they are queuing up, they sense blood in the water and easy pickings.

[snakey1]

We'll it hasn't stopped wars in Europe so far

[snakey1]

errr... right.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Europaea

You said peace in Europe not the EU and as there have been conflicts in Europe since the formation of the EU (the wars in what was formally Yugoslavia) I'll stick by my statement

[big_cod]

David Davis facing legal action because he won't release a study on the impact on business with brexit WHAT !!

 

If he doesn't release the report before we finally exit in 2019 he wants jailing (along with farage of course ) infact it's near on treason that he is willing to send the country to the dogs if the study proves to be strong against brexit this is not going to go down very well .

Edited October 13, 2017 by big_cod

[chesters1]

And your media will do their best to show them in their best light.... and the many people like me who want to know the truth with read them.

 

How do I see the EU?

 

I see the EU as a large and powerful trading block that enables free and easy trade between members. I see it as world power acting as a counterpoint to China, Russia and the US. I see it as a strong force for peace within Europe and a guarantee that we don't ever have wars in Europe again. I'd delegate issues to it that are best effectively dealt with on a supra-national basis like climate change, environment, sustainability and overall defence.

I'd prefer a federation of states, not so much like the US as the states in the US have delegated far too much power to central government, but a federation non-the-less. I'd ensure that co-operation between countries and bodies within countries was made as easy and as red-tape free as possible.

 

But most of all I'd ensure that it's citizens were at the heart of all it did, not just some of it's citizens but all of them. It should be an organisation for the people, not aimed mostly at banks and big business, but at it's people.

 

I'd also ensure it worked as a proper democracy where everyone had a vote and where everyone was represented. I'd ensure it had a bill of rights, a constitution and principles, through which the development of law and policy was developed.

 

Overall I see it as a continuing force for peace and stability.

 

Will that do?

 

It course exists already but needs work, a fair bit of work, but we'll get there. It's just a shame that so far our government has not stepped up to the plate and taken a leading role in the organisation. We should have done.

How is it free if we pay several billion to be in it?

Some where i read it would be cheaper for us to use WTO tarrifs and theres the constant wait for the EU to let us trade with non EU countries ,one company (sells hovercraft if i remember) has been waiting 14? Years to be allowed to trade with a south american company ,ofcourse we get stymied so germany clinches the deals instead.

 

I will be happy if just one foreigner loses the power to tell me how to live if england sinks i dont give a crap weve been through two wars that bankrupted us and recovered ,spent ten years of the doldrums entering the CM then we started selling our souls to be in the club ,the public want out i think they are under no delusions johny foreigner is out to punish us and they probably will they have since the day we entered france especially for some reason?

We had 3 choices stay leave or renegotiate ,so far our negotiations go us further in the club ,we can see these bastards just want us as someone that puts money in the pot as thats all they whine about

 

As for foreigners 'rights' we will decide that just as foreign countries will decide those working or living abroad from here ,rights are earnt not given for nothing

Edited October 13, 2017 by chesters1

[barry luxton]

Smt, on 13 Oct 2017 - 13:06, said:

 

How do I see the EU?

 

I see the EU as a large and powerful trading block that enables free and easy trade between members. I see it as world power acting as a counterpoint to China, Russia and the US. I see it as a strong force for peace within Europe and a guarantee that we don't ever have wars in Europe again. I'd delegate issues to it that are best effectively dealt with on a supra-national basis like climate change, environment, sustainability and overall defence.

 

 

However the e u as we can all see has morphed into a political ideal that even it's electorate haven't been given the opportunity to shape it's very existence, Holland and france voted against it. the u k where never given the opportunity to vote for it. Tusk has told the Russians that he wants to see e u countries surrounding it's borders. It's so called 'free' trading it is not. there are too many caveats attached. Anyone who truly wishes to remain attached to this political tit must be either weak willed and or weak minded. It has caused massive unemployment, it has created stagnant economies that are in the doldrums' with no way out with it's intransigent fixed monitory policy that favours the few over the many. Printing many millions of euros just to keep it's value artificially high. It's legislations are fixed and intransigent. The cap and cfp are not fit for any purpose that is of benefit to the electorate. It's open door policy has created mass movement of economic migration that to date the manderins are in denial that they have caused the problem so no fix is in sight. Based on the above and their failure to abide by their nato agreements, would I trust their ideal of a European army to keep us all safe. You can work that one out.