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Big bream


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#1 Anderoo

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 09:42 AM

Following on from Richard's excellent breamy bobbins topic, I'd like to get opinions on some of the more specific things about big (15lb+) bream in low-stock waters.

I've been thinking about rigs and I think I've come to the conclusion that they don't actually matter that much, as long as they don't tangle. What do you reckon? I can see the benefits of both semi-fixed and free running. I think I'm favouring free running.

Bait on a hair or on the hook? Again, I don't think it matters too much, but I would probably use a hair for semi-fixed and on the hook for free-running.

Amount of bait - as there aren't many fish probably not that much actual food but a fair amount of attraction?

Bait - any preferences? I'm not convinced it matters too much. Corn, boilies, maggots, worm, caster...
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#2 Kappa

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 03:58 PM

Following on from Richard's excellent breamy bobbins topic, I'd like to get opinions on some of the more specific things about big (15lb+) bream in low-stock waters.

I've been thinking about rigs and I think I've come to the conclusion that they don't actually matter that much, as long as they don't tangle. What do you reckon? I can see the benefits of both semi-fixed and free running. I think I'm favouring free running.

Bait on a hair or on the hook? Again, I don't think it matters too much, but I would probably use a hair for semi-fixed and on the hook for free-running.

Amount of bait - as there aren't many fish probably not that much actual food but a fair amount of attraction?

Bait - any preferences? I'm not convinced it matters too much. Corn, boilies, maggots, worm, caster...


I'm going to stuggle to convince myself to change from last year. Semi fixed, hair. I'm not sure bait matters too much either. For groundbait etc I reckon loads of smell with not too much bait if that makes sense.

However I'm no expert so I'd be interested in others opinions...

Rich

#3 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 04:25 PM

I prefer free running still as it gives me a better insight to whether Ive any bait left on the hook or not! Semi fixed is fine with a tough bait like boillies but for big bream I think small naturals are the best.Baits suich as worm,caster,maggot fall into this catagory and all are easily stripped from the hook by smaller fish.Dont want a big lump moving over my bait only to be sat there with a bare hook cause I havnt seen the tiny bait stripping knocks cause my rigs fixed.

As for hair or on the hook then I will stick with on the hook as I see no advantage what so ever in hair rigging small natural baits.In fasct with worms there is a distinct disadvantage as they just tangle up on a hair unless you use a fancy rig (cat leech style) and I see no point.

Bait and feed will be either worm over bread crumb feed or worm and corn cocktail over corn feed.Live maggot over dead maggot feed.Or Caster over breadcrumb feed. If there is to much problem from the likes of eels then straight on to bread flake over crumb. I have no preference for any combination as it simply doesnt seem to matter.Eel trouble will often be my main deciding point.

Amount of feed is a difficult one.With shoaling bream you really need to pile it in in relation to the numbers of fish you guestimate in a shoal.Similar with big bream but a lot harder to do as you dont see them moving so much so itsd a lot harder to work out how many at any one time will be feeding together. I dont ever think its m,ore than a handfull maximum so the amount of feed needed is much smaller.

Not too much feeding but maximum attraction as mentioned is definately the way a head with monsters.Even when using bread crumb its vital to use it properly.For non matchmen this means sieving it so its fine as possible and not got loads of lumps in it.You also want a very fine but even covering over the bottom of the area you are fishing.Little mounds doted around the swim just aint no good! best achieved from a boat but can be done with great care (and time by hand or with a pult) Attract,keep interested but not fill up is the answer to all loose feeding/groundbaiting but it is really make or break with big bream.I have my own mix of groundbait that is designed to do just this with a mix of crumbs and feeds to both bind and attract and additives such as Brasem to enhance the smell.But remember all this is to carry the small particles out there.I always put samples of my hook bait in but these are always a bit different to the hook bait ie if worm on the hook then a load of chopped worm goes in and finely chopped at that.If corn on the hook I like mashed corn as feed or in the crumb.Casters are also crushed and maggotts used dead.

Big thing though is to be using something that youve been sucsessfull with in the past.I say this as it can be very slow and you need to have 100% confidence in what you are doing.Minute you start chopping and changing and doubting your rig your bait etc you can forget it!
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#4 Guest_tigger_*

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 05:56 PM

I think I'd try one rod bolt rig style and the other free running and see which works out best. Budgie I don't worry about not knowing if tiddlers/anything has removed my baite from the bolt rig set up as I prefer to reel in pretty often and change my baite rather than cast out and leave it for yonk's. I also give my reel a few turns pretty frequently also as often I get a bite straight away after doing so, maybe it catches the passing fishes attension.
I think the best thing is trial and error and swap about a bit till you get it right for that particular day (hopefully that is).

#5 Kappa

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 07:37 PM

Big thing though is to be using something that youve been sucsessfull with in the past.I say this as it can be very slow and you need to have 100% confidence in what you are doing.Minute you start chopping and changing and doubting your rig your bait etc you can forget it!


I'd say your totally right there, its bad enough worrying about whether your bait is presented right when you are expecting lots of fish nevermind when you might have wait days for a bite! I'd go as far as to say confidence might be more important than bait and rigs!

What do you usually find with tench and bream? In my limited bream experience I've often found bream and tench in similar areas except the bream seem to feed harder overnight! I guess I'm asking if you fished a water with a reasonable head of tench would you expect to catch bream if the tench aren't feeding in your swim?

Rich

#6 wyeknot

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 12:04 AM

If there is to much problem from the likes of eels then straight on to bread flake over crumb. I have no preference for any combination as it simply doesnt seem to matter.

Interesting your comment about bread as I don't think it's been used that much at Wingham. Day old crust fished fluffy side up straight on the hook has accounted for quite a few carp on "Boilie waters" when the going's been tough. I have often thought about experimenting with flavoured bread or even special "bread" made in a bread machine at home. There is also, of course, the possibility of artificial bread which overcomes the problem of bread staying on the hook for any length of time.

Having said all this I wouldn't disagree with the approach and baits you mention. The only things I would suggest might bear thinking about is the use of artifical maggots/corn (one or two on a hook to counterbalance it) and the inclusion of fishmeal to groundbaits for the bream. They love the stuff and I would include either fishmeal itself to groundbait or pellets to spod mixes.

One final thought and I am aware that some may disagree but I wouldn't include hemp in groundbait for bream. Tench , yes but bream, no. I have never seen regurgitated or excreted hemp in a keep net of bream. I will now go and stand by for the barrage of dissenting voices!! :D

Regards,
Steve C.

#7 medwaygreen

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 08:07 AM

Well i have decided if i am lucky enough to fish again to use the method feeder one free running and one semi-fixed, the semi on a hair and the free- runner bait on hook. In both cases i will use a 3 inch hook length only buried into the method ball so that it is totally tangle free and the bait presents itself as the ground bait breaks down either through time or by the fish feeding on the ball.

The bait i have chosen will be red maggot, sweetcorn and worm with some cheese paste as a back up.

This article See here is interesting on the method and i have had Bream to 9lbs using this on one of my club lakes.

Starting to get excited, if i am one of the unlucky one to be balloted out then i will be there with camera to take shots of your monsters. :D

PS.
Forgot to say one other thing that is i will be using the rigs with the Dave Thomas lock slide float so that the line will be almost vertical to the feeder as opposed to an angle back to the bank, this may reduce line bits.

Edited by medwaygreen, 28 March 2008 - 08:40 AM.

Fishing seems to be my favorite form of loafing.

"Even a bad day of fishing is better than a good day of work."

I know the joy of fishes in the river through my own joy, as I go walking along the same river.

What do you think if the float does not dip, try again I think.

#8 lutra

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 09:34 AM

specific things about big (15lb+) bream in low-stock waters.


Has anyone got any thoughts on why we have waters like this? What i mean is Why have they not bred and these places turned into skimmer city? What makes a water a big bream water?
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#9 John Weddup

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 09:43 AM

I thought from the posting title this may be out of my league as I have never seen a bream anywhere near 15lbs.

But the replies have been most interesting and usefull to all bream anglers.

Everything Budgie has said is exactly how I do now for the smaller bream I catch so I guess I am just not fishing where there are big bream. I am going to target a couple of reservoirs near me this year so I may get amongst the big ones yet. Then its back up to the broads after june 16th.

I have 2 things to add that may be helpfull.

Eels can be a problem but I have found worm and corn cocktail to be one of the best big bream baits espescially after dark. This is when the eels come alive also. Most of the problem is small eels so I go to a very large hook and find they cannot get it in their mouth. A lobworm topped with 2 bits of corn on a size 6 or 4 still looks fine. The little eels still pull at it but you can tell the difference and ignore the bites. They normally still leave most of worm there and corn is intact anyway.

I agree about hemp not being the perfect bream additive but if tench are present I will use it as I am rather partial to big tench. In the broads I use two other cheap particles that are brilliant. Stewed wheat and kibbled maize. Both are availeable from animal feed stockists and are used for chicken feed. Wheat needs no explaining as its been used for years but kibbled maize is dried corn smashed up by a grinding machine. What you have are tiny bits of corn. Boil them and you have gorgeous small soft bits of corn. The ideal feed when using corn on the hook.

When boiling the maize do not overdo it and keep stirring it only takes a few minutes. It can turn into a stodge if you are not carefull. With both the additives and colours you can add are endless. Lots of room for experimentation. In the hotter weather you can do the weat in a big cool box. Add boiling water and leave in sun it softens really well.

When the bream go off the boil as the sun comes up I have often lightened up gear and caught quality roach on either wheat or sweetcorn having fed it overnight.

John

#10 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 09:52 PM

II prefer to reel in pretty often and change my baite rather than cast out and leave it for yonk's. I also give my reel a few turns pretty frequently also as often I get a bite straight away after doing so, maybe it catches the passing fishes attension.



Two good points Tigger.
I dont want to have to recast regularly in case of spooking fish that are moving or are over my bait.In fact more acurately keep on winding in is the real scarer.

But that said the point you make about a couple of turns of the reel handle inducinmg a take is very true.I always used to do this when fishing for shoal bream with a swingtip and the bites were a bit iffy.Not tried it with big bream maybe I should? trouble is I should imagine it works with shoal fish because of the "competition" element created by having so many feeding fish in an areaand this might not be the case with single/small group big fish?
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!