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Rudyard Kipling


John S

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You've probably seen on the news that students from Manchester University have painted over a mural of Rudyard Kiplings' poem If and replaced it with Maya Angelous' Still I Rise, citing Kiplings' racist and colonialist views, especially in his poem The White Mans Burden.

 

Full story on the BBC site here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-44884913

 

However, should we condemn someone from a different time for his writings? Does he deserve what happened to one of the most famous and inspirational pieces of English literature? Are those students from Manchester Uni just a bunch of whining snowflakes who need to get a life?

 

I guess you can tell where my feelings lie.

John S

Quanti Canicula Ille In Fenestra

 

Species caught in 2017 Common Ash, Hawthorn, Hazel, Scots Pine, White Willow.

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Species caught in 2015: Ash, Bird Cherry, Black-Headed Gull, Common Hazel, Common Whitebeam, Elder, Field Maple, Gorse, Puma, Sessile Oak, White Willow.

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Species caught in 2012: Ash, Aspen, Beech, Big Nasty Stinging Nettle, Birch, Copper Beech, Grey Willow, Holly, Hazel, Oak, Wasp Nest (that was a really bad day), White Poplar.
Species caught in 2011: Blackthorn, Crab Apple, Elder, Fir, Hawthorn, Horse Chestnut, Oak, Passing Dog, Rowan, Sycamore, Willow.
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A single incident like this is largely irrelevant but it does act as another signpost to a greater malaise within the education system.

If our universities are producing young people whose response to someone that they disagree with is to scream at them, set off fire alarms to stop them speaking and sparking a riot, we have a problem.

If our universities are producing young people who deface public property we have a problem.

If our universities are producing young people who are unemployable, self entitled, whining brats we have a problem.

 

Perhaps it's time for a root and branch review of higher education, reducing the number of people going, refocusing on STEM subjects and holding students to account for their actions.

 

Personally, I'd expel them with full forfeiture of all fees due for their course.

 

Interestingly, things are not going well for American colleges where this sort of nonsense has taken root and the University of Missouri, Evergreen and others are now in real trouble due to tumbling student uptake.

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Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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Bunch of racists themselves John. Pure hooligans.

 

Loved this remark

 

Riddi Viswanathan, student union diversity officer, said elected members representing students felt Kipling was "not in line with our values", singling out his poem The White Man's Burden.

 

Not a very good diversity officer is he. Not in line with their VALUES.And watch this little pathetic episode come back and bite the bitch Fatima on her brown fat ass. No doubt it will be brushed aside with the usual quote, I was misunderstood in my actions

 

One word for that bloke, your a racist tosser mate.

 

PS is this the same Fatima Abid on the image.

Fatima Abid joined The University of Manchester’s Board of Governors in 2018.

Edited by Andrew

"La conclusión es que los insultos sólo perjudican cuando vienen de alguien que respeto". e5006689.gif

“Vescere bracis meis”

 

 

 

 

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I think Kipling's ironies are beyond the comprehensions of the modern-day "politically correct"

 

Kipling's racist soldier ruefully complaining about his Indian mistress

 

".....for she knifed me one night 'cos I wished she were white" focuses very neatly on the attitudes leading to racial problems.

 

To call the poet (instead of the soldier) "racist" is just crass.

Edited by Vagabond

 

 

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"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

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The rewriting of history as usual ,trouble is the kids nowadays are brainwashed into this new claptrap .

 

My neice now at soas tells me to get anywhere or anything you have to sign up to these ideals or organisations,the labour party activists are meddling with kids heads twisting things for one! .

As i said before you shouldnt be able to vote until your 50+ hopefully by then you can see how manipulative others can be and you have hopefully experienced real life to judge

Unfortunately student unions seem to have the power pretty much how you do things rather than the university itself

 

Perhaps if the young want to punish things from our past let them remember the normans for 1066 ,romans twice ,germanys two attempts ,the french and indians backing the colonists against britain and a few other bad things rather than concentrate purely on us!

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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In my childhood days, only the exceptionally bright kids had the opportunity to go to a University!!

 

Most kids these days seem to think that University is something of a birthright!!. but would actually be better served with an Apprenticeship!!!

 

Universities are full of students who shouldn't even be there!! in fact some kids have a "BLACK BELT" in THICK!!

 

These kids need taking under the wing of someone in the real world!!

Edited by Martin56

Fishin' - "Best Fun Ya' can 'ave wi' Ya' Clothes On"!!

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In my childhood days, only the exceptionally bright kids had the opportunity to go to a University!!

 

Most kids these days seem to think that University is something of a birthright!!. but would actually be better served with an Apprenticeship!!!

 

Universities are full of students who shouldn't even be there!!

My neice deserves it just to thank her mum working two jobs to keep her there ,hopefully once shes got her professorship in america next year she will repay the investment.

 

Having worked in one for years theres plenty of brit students who shouldnt be there ,few enrol in the harder courses (95% foreign in electronics) so we have a glut of students qualified in media studies and the other soft options ,unfortunately these millennials as you say think of uni as a right rather than earned!

Ofcourse the more that get in cheapen the reward ,plenty of unemployed graduates when even 30 years ago a degree was a certainty of a good job ,now they work in tesco waiting for a job that will never appear because theres so many with the same degree in dancing or tiddlywinks

 

Appreniships (or rather training) has not gone ,companies grab the brighter kids direct from school and only teach them what they need to do in a specific job ,the kids are then unable to go elswhere because this "certificate" is far to narrow to use for anything but that job ,as they cannot leave they have no power to demand higher wages threatening to leave they are tied to the company until the company disposes of them

A diploma in crummoc carving only has a use if theres a shortage of crummoc carvers

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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All,

 

As a certified "snowflake" I can tell you this incident, regardless of claim, is not in the mainstream of political liberalism. Were the students even British? NOPE Fatima Abid, a student leader is at best part of a diaspora in Britain. Of all the marks of "liberal" decresacration of history, any history is not a political objective. Quite the opposite, It is a hate crime. While on the subject, the RIGHT has far more organized revolutionary nationalist groups. After all, it is democracy on one sort or another that is the foundation of the Western world.

 

Democracy is a liberal form of government

 

Phone

Edited by Phone
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All,

 

As a certified "snowflake" I can tell you this incident, regardless of claim, is not in the mainstream of political liberalism. Were the students even British? NOPE Fatima Abid, a student leader is at best part of a diaspora in Britain. Of all the marks of "liberal" decresacration of history, any history is not a political objective. Quite the opposite, It is a hate crime. While on the subject, the RIGHT has far more organized revolutionary nationalist groups. After all, it is democracy on one sort or another that is the foundation of the Western world.

 

Democracy is a liberal form of government

 

Phone

Time for your dried frog pills old chap.

The students doing this may be of the left but they are intolerant and authoritarian. Add power to that mix and they become totalitarian. What then for the demos?

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Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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It was the committee who decided, note a vote was taken. Seems like the lunatics have taken over the asylum, or a case of Napoleon and Snowball. It seems to me that they count history from the day they were born and are unable to view past events in relation to morals and society of the time, which has since evolved as we learn from the past, not try to erase it and punish the dead who cannot answer back

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