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The case for Treble hooks.


Dick Dastardly

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Well it’s that time of year again. Despite the extra (un-seasonal?) rain the piking season is well and truly underway. After a slow start I have suddenly received a deluge of new requests for Pike Teach Ins! Talk about leaving it late! I mention this as one of the most common subject of discussion at these and indeed amongst new pikers every where is the age old one of treble hooks.

 

Before we get into it any further let me say I base my views on over 35 years of pike fishing (40 of fishing) during which I must have tried every "new" idea going and then some! This includes things like single hooks, double hooks, various trace materials, various bait hooking techniques the lot! I am also not the only one to have done this so I’ve discussed and swapped findings with many other pikers, either directly or by reading their reports/articles. In addition to angling experience I also base this on my experience of retaining pike for periods of time before transfer to other waters and my studies in Freshwater Biology.

 

The standard "Jardine Snap Tackle" which uses two treble hooks has long been the recognised standard arrangement for bait fishing. Over the years though many have tried to get away from the use of the treble hook. People often say that they are worried that treble hooks will cause harm/damage to the fish especially if taken deep. At this point lets be quite clear that no matter how quick you strike, what rig you use there will always be a chance of deep hooking. All we can do is minimise this chance to the best of our ability and above all learn how to deal with it if/when it does happen. I honestly believe (and admit to it being the reason I first experimented with singles) that a lot of anglers shy away from trebles purely as they don’t have the necessary unhooking skills and are looking for what they think is an "easier" way.

 

I believe that used sensibly with the correct knowledge of handling and unhooking techniques that trebles are not only far more effective but less potentially dangerous than large singles. There are several points in my argument against singles. Firstly a single hook that can be used with standard sized bait and both be able to hold the bait securely and still hook the fish needs to be of a much larger size than a treble which will do the same size. Don't take my word for it get out half a mackerel from your bait freezer and take a size 6 single (for this discussion lets agree that the most probable "standard" size treble hook used for bait fishing is a 6) Hold the single up to the bait and see if you could securely hook the bait and still be confident on the strike? No it’s obviously not big enough! So try a 4 or a 2 still a bit iffy isn’t it? Realistically to enable the bait to be secure and still have a good chance of a hook up we are looking at 1/0 and above. Yes we could put the bait on a hair so that the hook isn’t masked but more about that later.

 

So if we are agreed that to use a single we must use one a lot bigger than the normal treble I will continue.

Once you have decided on a suitable size single compare the length of the point on it to that of the size 6 treble. A big difference as you can see.

 

I make the point of the length of the hook point as this obviously determines the maximum depth that the hook point can penetrate. And IMO this is the crucial "physics of the hook" that can cause damage or fatality. The further the hook penetrates the more likelihood of an important organ being punctured. Try and get an "exploded" diagram of a Pike and I think most of you will be a bit surprised at the location of vital organs such as the heart. A standard sized treble hook only (in most sizes of fish) penetrates into the relatively soft protective tissues or the hard bony part. Even if swallowed it is still less likely to penetrate the stomach (remember a pikes stomach wall is quite thick to enable it to cope with spines, fin rays etc) than the much longer singles point.

 

My other concern is that due to the single hooks far inferior hooking ability missed runs will be treated by allowing the run to develop longer and longer. This is just human nature. The problem then is that you are very much increasing the chance of putting that hook in a position that it can cause damage. This is also one of the main problems encountered by "hair rigging" the bait. Quite often on a normally timed strike the hook won’t even be in the mouth. I've seen some nasty "cheek hook ups" with hair rigged baits.

 

Due to this I came to the conclusion long ago that a pair of semi barbless (one point has a barb to hold the bait on and the others that normally hook the fish are barbless) are by far the most efficient and Pike friendly option. Incidentally unless deep hooked it is normally only one of each of the treble’s points that do penetrate anyway.

 

Recently (from around the introduction of American style Spinner Baits and even more recently the growth in popularity of the plastic Bulldawg type lure) lots of pikers are now questioning the safety of the large singles used on these.This in turn has made them look to the use of the admittedly smaller but still big singles used for bait fishing. This year I’m hoping to be able to carry out "post mortems on dead pike that have been caught on large singles just to try and see if there is any solid biological evidence to back this up. I will post my findings next Spring.

 

For those who still think singles are the way ahead then fine I will leave you to find out for your selves but If this at least makes you give it a bit of thought then all the better. Be interested to hear your views either way.

 

NB: I have been experimenting with Circle hooks this year to see if they could be usefull. Their unique shape certainly seems to avoid deep penetration but not deep hooking.However early days yet so cant really pass coment.My initial veiws are admitedly that I dont feel an over whelming need to move away from trebles butfeel I should at least get some experience with these hooks so I can comment from an informed view.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Budgie - if you can, see about getting a few of the Kahle hooks I mailed to Elton. The shape is designed for holding reasonable size baits without covering the hook point and they do nearly as well as circle hooks for getting a good hold in the scissors.

 

You will remember from Wingham that I know absolutely nothing about pike fishing with baits and have only an afternoon trying for them on lures but I use them for fishing larger lives for flathead catfish and they do well.

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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Ah so - forgot about that. I'm thinking that based on the bait size and what I saw of the size/shape of a pike's mouth, 3/0 - 5/0 would be the size range I'd think might work unless you were using really monster baits. I like to put the hook through the eyes rather than further back on the body.

 

Trebles may well turn out to be the safest hooks - I really dunno. Unless we could do some serious pike fishing side by side, I probably never will know but the longer I fish, the less fond of trebles I am because they are such a pain in the hindparts for me as the angler even though they certainly do hook lots of fish.

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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Its treble hooks for me every time

 

I've looked at the doubles that some prefer and compared their design and shape to that of trebles and based soley on that my preference is to use trebles over doubles. I'm also not a fan of big singles for the same reason. The shape and design of trebles means that you DONT get deep hook penetration as the other two hooks oon the treble act as a guard against deep penetration stopping the hook and barb from entering too deeply or at too sharp an angle as the maths and angles in the hook design simply wont allow it. To see if it works or not simply try it on a deadbait, try and deep impale the hook of a treble on the dead and see how far you can really push the hook in before the shank and radius of the bend of the gape stops you. Now do the same with a big single 1/0 2/0 or bigger and see how far in they go. Try it with fine wire Aberdeens and see how far round the gape that they sink into and you will be surprised by the results.

 

There is also the difference in hitting your runs. When fishing with the standard two hook rig I have the preference to hit my run the moment it goes, not waiting until I'm sure the fish has the bait firmly in its mouth or throat but the instant it goes off. Sure I miss a few fish by hitting them early but thats my choice and I feel more comfortable in missing a few by reacting early than waiting for a deep hooked fish. That in my opinion is what you have to do (wait during a run) when fishing singles as you only have one point in the mouth so you tend to stack the odds for a hook up in your favour.

 

When fishing with my treble hook arrangement my preference is to use a semi barbless pattern on the bottom hook and a fully barbed one on the uppermost one, the bottom one being my safeguard against deep hooking allowing for the easy removal if deep hooking does occur. In my experience I have found that some of the deep hooking issues arise from the bigger fish who can take the bait down deep without moving off and without any indication on your float or alarms, the only reason I can think is that as big fish they are in no danger of being dinner to a bigger fish so they are able to take the bait and sit on it without moving off, some of my big fish have gone on runs of 6 inches or less such is their confidence , jacks tending to tear off before they become dinner to something else.

 

I believe that the use of trebles is kinder to pike welfare and that they cause much less damage to pike than overly large singles and are much less likely to result in deep hooking and fish fatalities

 

Lets see what everyone else thinks

Edited by Brian Carragher
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I no longer do very much bait fishing for Pike.

 

When I did I nearly always used single hooks for livebaits up to about 6" - I never deep hooked a fish whilst using singles and the Pike were always hooked in the scissors.

I reckon that I probably failed to hook about 2 in 10 fish - about the same as when using single trebles. The trick with singles is NOT to strike, if the fish is running, allow the line to tighten & just gently pull the hook home.

If the fish is not running, wind down to it & gently pull the hook home.

 

The hook is inserted into the mouth & by feeling gently for the nasal opening, bringing the hook point out through one of the nostrils.

 

I think the method of tying the bait on a circle hook, in the fashion used by Big Game anglers would be even more efficient, not sure if our bait fish have the same cavity below the eyes tho'.

 

The hook type I used was the old forged VMC short shank hooks with a slightly inturned point, and a well offset bend - never bigger than size 2/0, more usually a size 1.

 

I can see the need for multi treble deadbait rigs but I reckon single hooks rigs are potentially much less likely to damage Pike & very nearly as efficient, if used correctly for live baits.

 

Cheers

Barry

Barry

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Thanks for this thread Budgie.

 

What about the hooks that seem to come with all the shads/rubber lures made by Storm etc? These all come with large (to my eyes) single hooks. I've bought a few of these but I've yet to catch a fish with them so can't comment on how the hook gets set. They do seem very big though. Is it better to just buy the rubber bodies and insert your own hooks?

 

Personally I crush all the barbs on all the lures I use. It make unhooking so much easier plus the hooks don't get caught in the net (or my coat or trousers!). But most importantly the pike can be returned in no time at all.

The best time to fish is when you have a chance.

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Interesting thread and comments!

 

Personally I loathe treble hooks.

 

I can see your point about penetration but to turn the argument on its head I often hear people saying barbless hooks are bad due to their ability to achieve deep penetration. As such I'd have thought maybe a heavier wire barbed large single may actually not penetrate as far as a finer wire treble.

 

Secondly and most importantly I really really oppose the use of two sets of treble hooks as if the lower set finds a hookhold in the scissors then the top set can be flailing around the pikes head and eyes.

 

Finally I hate the fact that anyone can buy a set of snaptackle and go piking with inadequate tackle and put the fish the catch in danger. In inexperienced hands I would argue a large single hook would lead to less pike deaths than trebles.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way pike anglers, I'm interested in this discussion and the facts behind pike safety, I'd be very interested to hear what Steve Burke thinks.

 

I don't like the argument that using treble hooks leads to more hook-ups as fishing is not about catching and landing as many fish as possible, its about catching them and then releasing them in as close to perfect condition as one realistically can. I don't think treble hooks fit with that ethos but I'm willing to be enlightened.

 

Rich

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I have also tried pretty much every hook arrangement, singles doubles trebles, 2 trebles etc. I can honestly say that i have had no difficulty with trebles, either a single treble or a 2 treble trace. the most important issue is unhooking ability, learning to go through the gills for deep hooked pike, and simpley turn the hooks by turning the treble shank. Easy peasy, no damage done to the fish and quick release.

 

I personally think that big singles to cause more damage, having had a spinner bait damage a pikes maxilla without even striking the take.

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I don't like the argument that using treble hooks leads to more hook-ups as fishing is not about catching and landing as many fish as possible, its about catching them and then releasing them in as close to perfect condition as one realistically can. I don't think treble hooks fit with that ethos but I'm willing to be enlightened.

 

When pike picks up a bait with treble hooks you can realistically strike straight away with a realistic chance of hooking the fish. With a single hook you cannot, as illustrated by Brians excellent post above. He describes how you need the skill and experience to set the hook correctly in order to have a reasonable hook-up rate.

 

As you say, maybe it shouldn't be all about efficiently catching all the fish which pick up your bait, but human nature would inevitably lead to people leaving runs longer and longer if they kept missing fish, something which is less necessary with treble rigged baits. Obviously badly fished tackle is badly fished and a pair of trebles is unlikely to do a pike much good if ingested, but nor would a single hook, especially a large hook which can penetrate a lot further than a smaller sized treble.

 

Musky used to be fished for with "suckers", a type of fish like a small barbel, mounted on a single 14/0 hook. This was allowed to run twice for up to half an hour before the hook was set and the fish played it. Obviously this started when all the musky were killed, but has actually carried on in the modern catch and release era! They are gradually being enlightened and modern sucker rigs for musky are basically a snap tackle, as it allows the fish to be hit immediately with an acceptable amount of success.

Edited by Tim Kelly

Tim

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