Rufanuf

What I find so dissappointing about this post is that it really shows a complete lack of awareness about both conservation AND what people like Stuart have achieved in the establishing of such fisheries as Gillham's. In the case of the Arapaima, many of the pictures you will find of captures in the wild are ultimately of dead fish, since the fish has to be handled with extreme care if its not to come to harm, something that is almost impossible to do in the wilds of the Amazon Jungle. The Arapaima is an endangered species in the wild, and personally I think once a fish acquires that status then fishing for it in any circumstance except a controlled environment like these "mudholes" becomes a questionable practice at best. A 100kg or 100lb(for that matter) freshwater fish, whether captured in the wild or in a "mudhole" is quite an accomplishment no matter what way you try to spin it. For a fishery owner its quite a feat to retain such specimens in good health, for the angler its quite a feat to beat a fish that size on rod and line. Bungsamran is mentioned. To clarify the situation, Bungsamran has a small head of the largest carp in the world, that practically speaking could not be targeted anywhere else in the world other than Bungsamran (I am talking about 150lb+ specimens). You could fish for these carp on Bungsamran for many many years without success, so what is the difference in terms of angling accomplishment between catching one of these, and catching a 40lb or 50lb carp in your venue back in the UK? I can tell you the difference! It's a damn site more difficult! Some of these fish are close to hundred years old, they are wise, wary, and then even if you do get a hook up the fish will run you in circles. Last week our guest took a 67lb Giant Siamese Carp, not a huge specimen but even so I am sure Jim will tell you that carp gave a fight the likes of which sticks in the memory forever. That's why people travel to Thailand to fish, and I can tell you not many go home unhappy for their experience. Which is more than can be said for many wild destinations portrayed as being "fishable" when in fact all the fish where wiped out decades ago.

I know this was written a long time ago. Wonder if you still feel that way? Many a good thing for local people and local fish conservation has come out of foreigners setting up guiding operations overseas. It's not all bad. In the end you cant halt the "progress" of mankind...if thats what it can be called. But in truth the whole bloody lot of us are parasites, and of course the fish would perhaps be better off without us around.

I think the biggest carp to be caught recently on rod and line was 83kg at Bungsamran. But I know Zeb Hogans work has had local net anglers notifying the research group of carp to 130kg plus recently, We have a good news item on our website...cut and pasted here " At one point, catching a caho, or ‘the king of fish’ was treated as an honor complete with offerings to the gods, but sadly the large fish species is near extinct due to over fishing. (left; a tragic sight a 150kg+ Giant Siamese Carp laying in a Vietnamese market) Caho, or Catlocarpio siamensis, is a giant species of carp weighing from 40 to more than 160kg each and subsists on seaweeds, marine algae and shellfish, and follows a migration pattern from Cambodia to the Mekong Delta in Vietnam The giant fish is concentrated in the Vam Nao confluence – where the Tien and Hau rivers meet – home to many deep waters holes that provide suitable shelter for this type of fish after it migrates in from Tonle Sap lake in Cambodia. There are two types of Caho: den (black) and hoa ca (spot), of which ca ho den is preferred because of tastier fillets. What has driven the caho to near extinction in the wild is the fishing season, which begins in the first lunar month and lasts for four months. Experienced hunters believe the caho usually feed on the 13th, 17th, 18th, 25th and 27th days of every month. Fishermen spread a 70m long and 12m wide net in the river, believing that setting up a channel to catch the caho in advance means they claim the right to the fishing area. Another reason contributing to their extinction is that the caho do not need to be baited for, but like to run headlong into the nets to show there strength even when the tide ebbs, making them an easy catch. “I’ve never seen a fish like the caho. It rushes towards the net and throws itself up and down many times once caught,” said Sau Vien, a veteran caho hunter, who caught a 155kg caho in 2000. Glory years Binh Thuy commune in Chau Phu district of An Giang province has more than 60 caho fishermen, who have each caught 30-40 caho each. A man named Nam Thu, also known as Nam CaHo has caught a record 80 fish. Thu said he caught his first caho in 1980 while spreading nets on a fishing area he inherited from his father. “It weighed more than 150kg and sold for one tael of gold (one tael = 1.25 oz) at that time” Thu recalled, adding he was so happy he never slept that night. Thu said that after catching the sixth fish, he decided to quit working for the commune police to become a professional caho hunter. He said fortune continued to smile on him rather than on the fish as he later caught dozens of caho ranging in size from 50kg to 160kg. According to custom, if you catch a fish weighing less than 100kg, you must donate a pair of ducks as offerings to the River God and a pig’s head if catching a larger fish. The reality Unfortunately, all of the tradition that surrounds catching a fish of this size over the past decades has lead to over fishing, and sadly the caho is now in danger of extinction. Many fishermen have had to turn to other work, having fished the supply of caho dry, as the number of caho left in the river waters weighing over 100kg can be counted on one hand. Even the King of CaHo, Nam Thu, is changing his work, having gone some years with catching only one of the giant species during a whole fishing season. Thu recently sold his two fishing areas for 0.6 of a tael of gold, even less than his prized 150kg catch back in 1980. Reported by Thanh Dung – Translated by Thu Thuy Sad Story about the Giant Siamese Carp....but they are still out there, but I dont think its a real contender for the worlds largest freshwater fish...unless of course we say so many of the other widely excepted large "freshwater" fish are in fact NOT pure freshwater fish.

I think in fact the real issue about what the biggest freshwater fish species is, simply cannot be answered until someone defines what it means to be a "Freshwater Fish" For example you see species that are migratory that grow huge such as various Sturgeon, I think most people would except then that this is not a true freshwater fish? But then within that category there are one or two species of Sturgeon in rivers in Russia that it is known as fact never leave the river they inhabit and they have been taken to over 900LBs. So would that species qualify? Then theres Sea Fish that have evolved to life in the rivers, such as the Giant Freshwater Stingray. It's quite clear this species can live exclusively in freshwater, it can also live in sea water, and in fact it tends to be inclined towards brackish/tidal water. The fact IT CAN live in freshwater alone...does this make it a freshwater fish? Or should the definition of a freshwater fish be the other way around? I mean basically any fish placed in saltwater that survives cannot be classified as a freshwater fish right? As an experiment its not one I hope any one will try! But if you placed an Arapaima for example in saltwater, I think we would all be quite confident it would not survive...so we know its a pure freshwater fish. The Mekong Catfish never leaves the river for sure, but from what Ive seen I sometimes get the impression it could live anywhere, and again in fact many of the Pangasius family inhabit tidal stretchs of river...and it seems to me this genus of fish has once again evolved in more recent times (recent millions of years, not 10s or 100s of millions of years) from sea going fish. Then theres the wierd and wonderful that knowone seems to know a lot about. The Chinese Paddle Fish for example, which undoubtedly grows huge if there are any left. I wonder if anyone knows which of the biggest freshwater fish that most people accept as pure freshwater (like the Arapaima for example) can survive in saltwater?

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My bets are on the worlds 3 largest fish being in this order:- 1. Giant Freshwater Stingray 2. Arapaima 3. Mekong Giant Catfish. Based on having fished for and captured all 3, having talked to many others who have also fished for and captured all 3. Based on basic ichtyological principles (if there are such a thing?) and based on many years of research taking into account all recorded specimens (validated or not), local rumour, local speculation, local knowledge. The Giant Freswater Stingray comes from a family of fish known to achieve weights massively higher than the other two contenders. I think if this species had not been fished out completely (and 200kg fish are still being caught! These are juveniles really.) We would be seeing weights over 500kgs, and perhaps approaching a 1000kgs. The Arapaima, as a predator grows rapidly, and despite the fact that very few are caught in the wild in the Amazon by recreational anglers, they still regularly come in at sizes over 140kg. In Thailand there are plenty of fisheries that have fish approaching 200kg, and some private collectors claim to have them approaching 300kgs. Its a close call to put the Mekong Catfish in 3rd place. Theres no question of the document 646LB specimen caught by Thai Fishermen in 2005, but if you look at the pictures of this fish, it seems to me that its frame simply could not support more weight, it appears to almost be bursting at the seams and it may have been in spawn??? Not sure. That may well of been one of the most mature specimens of a Mekong Catfish that has or will ever be caught. My instinct tells me your looking at a fish there that is reaching its limit in size and maturity, wheres you catch stingrays and even Arapaimas at a 100kg and they have a distinctly juvenile feel about them. The scales or skin is perfect, the muscle tone seems young, the eye clear, so on and so forth. Just my thoughts! Ruf

Ahh....BUDGIE, Do I not recall responding to one of your synical posts about Thai Fish Species and the Thai Fishing scene before? It's simple really, anyone who has fished from the Amazon to the Mekong has fished where the biggest freshwater species come from. They also know where the best chance to catch any 100kg fish of any freshwater species is, and that is Thailand, pure and simple! However Thailand has the advantage since not only does it have its own native species, it also has the Arapaima. A Mekong Catfish can reach a 100kg in 6 years and thats in a poor environment(reared in captivity for example). Before their migratory routes where damned I expect they thrived even more so. The Giant Freshwater Stingray, perhaps grows even faster although very little research has been done. Contrary to conventional conservationist beliefs, the Stingray is still abundant in some of Thailands rivers, although it has to be said the real beasts...(upwards of 200kgs and onwards to perhaps a 1000kgs!) are hard to come by. How does a fish of this size hide in a river that has millions of people living along its banks? They dont of course! But the smaller ones demonstrate the species is hanging in there, and once the locals catch on that its better to use these fish for recreation than for food, we will be seeing 200kg/300kg and eventualy 500kg fish in the Mekong again. The Arapaima loves it here in Thailand too...and I know of private keepers who have fish approaching 9ft long and attaining wieghts approaching 300kg. As Rick or anyone else who fishes in Thailand for any period of time knows, there is no question that the Mekong Catfish and the Giant Freshwater Stingray grow far larger than any documentation available (such as recorded records in the IGFA, storys published by National Geo) that western anglers would consider "proof worthy". At Bungsamran we have numerous Arapaima approaching 200kg swimming around, Mekong Cats at 160kg, Siamese Carp over a 100kg, and thats just a 20 acre fishing park/lake! Stick these fish back in to a protected wild environment, and watch them pack on the pounds by the 100! I hope to live to see that day! Ruf

Hi Eddie, and all, I do find it amusing when I see negative comments about Bungsamran, or indeed angling destinations outside of Europe that don't happen to have overweight common carp in them! LOL (I recognise that wasn't the point Budgie was making, but I just wanted to put my thoughts on a forum somewhere) As a keen fisherman (I think angler sounds a bit too snooty), I have carried with me throughout my fishing lifetime the wonder and fascination of a child, about "what could be lurking beneath the surface". And I grew tired years ago of the UK Carp fishing scene, where anglers have got so familiar with their fishing venues and what they contain, that they might as well be fishing in their garden pond! And in that scenario I would have to share some of budgies sentiment that wild is better. Forgive me for perhaps being a little old fashioned in this regard! Perhaps I should be more worried about checking out the latest bite alarms or trying to figure out which amino acids will work best in my experimental boilie! These are the thoughts that so often run through my mind when I read a negative posting about fishing thailand. But what happened to anglers sense of adventure and mystery? I dont see much point in sitting in a bivvie all year round hoping to catch the venues biggest fish, called "Matilda" (or whatever) in the hope that it might of put on a few more boilie induced ounces than when she made her last appearance. Even if I did buy into this school of thinking, wouldnt I rather be tackling a 200LB carp than a 50lb one? Since that's all most of these guys are worried about;"Hey lets see if we can get Matilda out at 50LB 1oz rather than 50LB dead! And spend 1000's of pounds in a single season doing it. Is that really what angling has become? If so, so be it, I won't knock it since I've done it! But like to think I've escaped that rat trap now. Thailand is one of the few easily accessable places left in the world where no western angler really knows what the potential is. Even Thailand's famed Bungsamran remains somewhat of an enigma even to it's owners it seems! Talking to guides that have fished the venue since it opened, you regularly get conflicting stories about what was originally stocked, and what has been stocked since. In addition to this, I read stories and see pictures all the time of 100kg plus carp taken from various of S E Asia's Mekong Basin and all its tributary's, by local fishermen. Its also well known that some of Thailands reservoirs now hold 50kg plus Siamese Carp as well as a host of other species, but like fishing any large body of water, these locations represent a real challenge to a resident angler, let alone a visiting one. The point is I guess that we all have a different view about "What is GOOD fishing?", and well I have to say I've tried most of them! Everything from Big Game Fishing for Marlin of the coast of Fiji, Cook Islands, Maldives...Bivvying Up in UK and Europe after carp, Mahseer Fishing...fly fishing in out Mongolia! You name it I tried it! But for me Thailand wins hands down, not just becuase of its wonderful diversity of fishing opportunities but becuase of the shear lack of interest from those who have not yet given it a try! As the Thai's like to say "up to you!" Gone Fishin'! Jules