Jaffa

Hi Elton, Do you not think things might be changing though? I don't mean the big forth-coming election, because i find it hard to sort out one from the other, but in day to day life I find a lot of people getting angry - its not just fisheries after all; its green (in all senses of the word) bureaucrats introducing well intentioned, but not thought out, rules on everything; fisheries are just one tiny fragment of the laws falling on us day in day out. Don't know if you heard down south, but in Scotland, a woman was left to die in a shaft because firefighters were not allowed to try and save her?! It shocked me deeply and i don't imagine im the only one. Tides got to turn, and the non representative "reps", the well financed green groups, and the on the cheap media, who have enjoyed such an easy, lazy ride for most of my life are suddenly going to face questions. Rant over Whats the actual situation with the seahorse this guy found then? Someone on this site is likely to know i guess.. Chris

Maybe we need to grow a spine and concentrate on whats true rather than whats popular atm ? The guy found a seahorse (which in current media numbness is like finding the magic bean), which he found curious and did what any interested person might do - took it along to someone he thought might be able to tell him about it. Trouble is that " happy to help" org has an agenda, the media love stories about cute seahorses so will spin it a bit more, Anglers.net joins in and suddenly we are connecting a guy that found something interesting on a beach and wanted to know more, with something bad? Sod the talk of MCZ's and all the rest, the guy did good as far as im concerned.

The Crown estates commission are a bit like an old fairy tale. They were fast asleep through the ives of any us 40 plus, existing in cobwebbed offices all over the land., then Salmon farming arrived and they woke up, found they had so much money they could fly planes to look at every boat mooring and work out its worth. Just dreamt that btw Could not possibly be true.

If they "fade away" after the damage is done, the damage is done regardless. If the people that want to convert a perfectly taken dolphin photo/narrative into legislation and don't have to pay for it then i'm unclear as to why they will fade? The green pornography is looking a bit dog eared and over visited.. Apparently the "End of the line" is on tv again this weekend. Can we expect a reasoned comment on it by the AT ? or would it be considered "bad form" to upset a dinner guest?

Fair enough, but why is it that don't you know about what happened with the three mile limit in Scotland?! Is it because nobody in the AT hierarchy knows anything about UK sea-fisheries? or that some do but keep quiet when its "off message"? FWIW I think its the latter.. It's true that any "Golden mile" (and btw imho this whole idea is down to certain angling "reps" and not some finger in the dyke, heroic defence of the people they claim to represent) has not yet been directly connected to a rod licence but as sure as night follows day it will end up taxing anglers - someone will have to pay for ; -Entitlement .Sorting out who does and does not fit the box chosen as allowed to fish in this gilded area. Thats going to cost someone. -Enforcement. Hardly know where to start on that, but can take a reasonable guess where it will end, given that anglers inputs into any system created will be drowned out by the green lobby. Thats going to cost someone. -Effects. A Golden mile will create more than a ripple, IMHO it will produce big effects in the inshore commercial fisheries that will damage sea angling. Some inshore commercials will decide enoughs enough and get out, others will figure that a punt on a bigger vessel than can work a mile off in winter is worth the risk ( with the brilliant enforcement thought out in the Golden mile scheme, any such skipper would never imagine his big new boat might on occasion work tight inshore ..) It will ripple up the coast as Anglers like me, who have taken fishing from commercial harbours as the norm, get to enjoy the backblast from commercials reading letters in the Fishing news, from Southern missionaries whose ignorance of the subject is directly matched by their distance from any of the laws they wish to bring in. Just MO.

And just how much is it going to cost to decide who get gets todo what in this beautiful vision of yours? Can we expect the local papers to be full of lawyer-enriching disputes over who has what rights, week in week out? It all comes out of the codend and it would be nice to see this fact recognised.

If you have thought that long and hard, then you can tell me something about the displacement of commercial effort? The success or otherwise, of the 3 mile limit that used to exist in Scotland? The implications of opening Pandoras box and getting sea anglers boxed and classified to be taxed and manipulated to the latest headlines. Im not a member of any club, prefer fishing alone,and somedays like to dump the fishing tackle and play in the surf. Am i "grassroots" or in some other box? Chris PS Fishing is not a "Sport" to me. Its a happy hobby/pastime that produces rare moments and a rare chance to eat wonderful food

We would be much better off clearing rainforest, to farm things delicate western novelists feel they can eat, then shipping that produce on an airliner that stops off in in Alaska to pick up wild caught salmon, so those poor fish-eating souls, that suffer about farmed salmon, can eat. Be even "green" if that jetliner could nip to China on route and pick up a cargo of Greenpeace badges and cheap fishing tackle

So the Golden mile does not actually effect you either way but your for it because it will help others. Not being funny, but does that mean you have not really given it much thought?

Sorry Peter, I can't think of a single cheerful uplifting to say about whats happening in your part of the world. To me it seems like the lunatics have finally got hold of every lever and are going to pull them at random as the mood takes them.

If things are really that depressing (and i don't doubt your view of how mad its got down there ) how come your so bloody cheerful, active and still fishing? You gonna limbo under the waves of legislation and "interested" bodies and still make a living?

Could not give a flying F**k about the personal differences between you and Steve. Would like to hear your view on this "Golden mile" though

Why were the Scottish fishery officers, and apparently the navy, still being sent to learn about commercial fishing on the Humber when it was totally irrelevant to what they were seeing everday? I was paid fantastic expenses money to learn from you experts; i crashed the trawler simulation but stood in awe at the flume tank as it showed the effect of a 1 knot current on a gill net. Im not having a pop at you Clive but it bugs me to know why on earth I got dragged away from my work, transported to a godawful humber hotel, spent half a week listening to history about the humber fleet, then got punted back up the road having gained not one single usefu,l idea other than Maff really were the useless pain in the neck everybody i'd ever worked with told me they were. My expensive Maff "education" taught me nothing about the world i lived in fishingwise. It taught me lots about power and money and organisations unwillingness to let go at any cost though. Like you though, thats all just ancient history. Any chance the At reps can catch up?

Read that one Leon, but I was hoping there might be something a wee bit more than one persons view, given thats its apparently a serious AT objective? No discussion about displacement of effort then? nothing about it being a driver to bigger boats that can survive the weather all year 1 mile out? No implications for anglers when small harbours are shut down because the bigger boats may need to move harbours?

Elton, people have known about deepwater reefs and corals for a lot longer than the "in the last decade" claim made in the article. Fishing gear and power has certainly got stronger and reefs in "popular" deepwater fishing areas are likely to get smashed up/changed (pick your point of view) by the gear. I'd imagine the gear would get equally smashed up/changed when the two meet. What the article does not look at is how rare or otherwise these reefs really are. The ones they looked at were, surprise, suprise , known fishing grounds where no doubt information from the fisheries led them to look. What if these reefs are incredibly widespread at those usually "out of sight/out of mind" depths ? There are, or at least were (no idea whats happening now) UK boats operating out there, most of them in an attempt to sidestep the quota madness in our inshore waters, but I've not heard much about Rockall in years; the current government gave it away a few years back.. strange that one never hit the papers or apparently the minds of those that seem keen to get into bed with them. Last rumours i heard were of Russian fleets using 40mm nets there. Its a funny old world.. P.S. Knew I'd seen the good Doctors name before; http://www.saveourseas.com/oceanacidification Didn't bold my fav bit which was Ocean acidification. Must be a nightmare to motivate yourself about deep reefs if you think the Ocean is going to acidify and kill all life on earth..

Not possible. Nothing happened until the MAFF history unit says it did. You took the wrong pill..

The lovely soundbite (just MO)that is the Golden Mile. Never seen a serious discussion on it yet. Where can i go to see all sides on this AT promoted issue?

I have no idea if what you say about modern Peterhead crews is true or not; its a big fleet and likely to contain allsorts. All i think about is what t i saw in the 1980's; the tail end of the Humber style trawler companies,and they were ugly to me; crew treated liked dirt and dealing with their "company" officials through the kind of defence cages i have only ever seen in hard Glasgow off-licences. Charles Dickens would have recognised the way they worked as being everyday. I suspect he would also recognize the missionaries, who while taking a big pay from the codend feel obliged to do good works

If the first pair trawls were taken to Scotland, by this lovely Humber synergy, in the mid eighties then i was obviously just hallucinating about all the pairs that landed at Aberdeen in the early eighties Happily I dutifully wrote down all the catches and methods so they should be available for anyone to look at Suggest you look at your dates again

Clive, the Humber ports and the methods historically used by their fleets were irrelevant by 1980, never mind 1999, yet as you say thats where people were sent to be trained. How crazy was that? All the actual fishing was being done by the Scots "inshore"fleet, with Seine net the top method for the top boats actually catching in the early eighties, yet the enforcement guys are sent to learn ancient trawl history on the Humber? . I doubt any of the Seine net skippers thought

Is the purpose of the RSA to represent "grassroots anglers" or the needs of the "RSA industry"? There is a clear difference between the two, so which is it?

A great line for the advert makers but a stupid idea. If the AT are pushing for this then that alone is enough to convince me they are really all about pushing the agendas of green NGO's and are utterly remote from everyday peeps. Why is the AT pushing for a "golden mile" and who suggested they do so?

So you "trained" the navy to spot the use of bad devices used by deepwater skippers from the Humber and showed them the 15 illegal codend demonstrations. Would this be at the same time that the humber fleet was coming to an end and the Scots "inshore" fleet were pushing boundaries and experimenting? Did the Navy training achieve anything real? The real fishing power moved north . A cynic might imagine the civil servant cash was reluctant to follow so MAFF concentrated on ever more ridiculous schemes to "manage" an industry they though they thought they understood. Were any of your case study nets based on the methods the Scots inshore fleet were using? Chris

Ain't nature a curious thing . Plastic logs and bass at Whitby, what next!? Hope you have a great season this year. Chris

Omg the Whitby haar descends again The two of you know more about fisheries than most the people on this forum. Any chance you could sort it out? Because its getting boring to be honest. Sorry, I'll get me coat.