easternangler

Are you guys aware of a Government study currently being carried out to improve the access for canoeing on inland waterways. The Countryside Agency has been invited by DEFRA to look at the possibility of extending access by voluntary agreements and they in turn have appointed the University of Brighton to carry out the study. The original 100 sites identified have been wittled down to just four for detailed study, these being area 1 Mersey (including Irwell, Goyt and Etherow),area 2 Little Ouse, Dove and Waveney, area 3 Wear and area 4 Teme, Onny and Clun. Concentrating on area 2 (as it is in my neck of the woods) the Dove has been deemed unsuitable but the River Thet put forward as an alternative (upstream of Thetford) and the Little Ouse dowstream of Thetford. Whilst I think that most of the time anglers and canoeists co-exist with little problem, what we are talking about is the possibility of a much more intensive use (I have heard, but this is only second hand, that worse case scenario could be up to 100 canoes on a canoe rally).The intention seems to be to encourage much increased access for water based sports and recreation and so increase tourism etc. I'm not sure how far advanced this is in the other areas but for area 2 there is to be an open meeting for individuals and clubs to meet the study team, to hear more about the project and to give feedback.Not sure if I can advertise it on here but its on Tuesday 11th November, 7.30 for 8.00 at the Fleece PH Bungay. It is really important for anglers to make the effort to attend this and similar meetings.Remember, apathy is usually taken as support.

One thing I found you needed to be prepared for was the need to wade out to fish alot of the swims on the lakes. Most of the places we found (Skandeborg in the main but also Stillings)meant you had to stand all day. However, there are some areas you don't have to stand, such as the Youth Hostel stretch on Skandeborg, but be prepared as often there are not very many places you can fish from even on enormous lakes. You also have to buy a permit for the particular lake or river (usually tourist information places or the youth hostel as above) as well as a licence from the post office. One place we stayed got the permit for us but we still had to get our own licence. You need to take all of your bait and I would suggest even if you want to use sweetcorn, take it from home as everything is very expensive over there.

I hear several reports of big bream catches even from the park area (100 to 250lb). I am thinking of a night session on a boat, any tips on where to go on the broad or should I head up Oulton Dyke? Should be right up Peters street!!

In response to some of the other replies about if there is a need for public liability cover on a syndicate lake my club has looked into a number of angles on this. Even if its a syndicate, presumably there will be a need for work parties on the lake, an obvious area that a claim may arise but one very often overlooked by clubs. Another interesting area is to make sure that you have member to member cover. If one syndicate member wacks out a lead and it hits another member causing a serious injury who picks up the bill? Any visiting guests or other clubs fishing a match need to be covered and if you organised a syndicate outing to another water you may also have a liability. The insurances I have been involved with cover all these eventualitys and probably several more I havn't thought of. Hope this helps.

Suffolk hey! If you join Suffolk County AAA (for which I happen to be Treasurer - no vested interest of course) through our various affiliations our members have been getting very competitive qoutes. For instance, for up to 200 members (they don't consider smaller numbers but we are looking into this)you can get the insurance you need (£2million cover) for £115. Add another 35% for £5million. Send me an email if any interest.

Absolutely, fished Buss Creek in Southwold, 18lb including 4lb 1oz Tench but problems with the number of Rudd, that is if too many fish in your swim can be classed as a problem. Packed up at lunchtime and went to a pond for a couple of hours during the evening. Only one 6oz tench but had a great time with a Sparrow Hawk nearly taking my head off as it came in for a Reed warbler (which it missed as well). Catching fish in the morning or not catching in the evening didn't really matter, had a great time doing both.

Definitely try a larger hook. Also, the best way I have found is to cut it in to cubes and use a baiting needle. Push the needle through the meat, hook the hook onto the barb of the needle and use the needle to pull the hook through the meat. Once through, twist the hook 90 degrees and gently pull the hook back into the meat using the line. This buries the hook and stops it pulling through the meat via the hole created by putting it in in the first place. I know some people like to leave the barb showing and you can still do this by twisting but not pulling it back through, the meat would have to be smaller though so the bend would fit around the outside (if that makes sense). I have found this to be very succesfull and much less fidly than pulling the barb through and using a bit of grass etc on the hook to provide a stop. Hope it helps.

I think you're right, thats why he shifted from the fish feeling pain debate to the what about the dead fish one.

Hi catchaplenty, regarding the local MP's, Bruno has already been on the case. Have you seen the press release from Martin Salter MP, If not I think you will be pleased when you do. Maybe Bruno could post it on here

This was the whole interview Peter, Suffolk County A.A.A. Radio Suffolk Interview – 30th April 2003 Part One Interviewer – It may sound odd, but according to research published today, fish feel pain. Writing in the Journal of the Royal Society, researchers claim they have the first conclusive evidence to prove this. Dr Lynn Sneddon from Liverpool University helped to conduct the research and joins us now, what did you find? L.S. – Well we found that fish have the same nerves that humans and mammals have to detect potentially painful stimuli and that there was serious behavioural impairment for the fish when subjected to potentially painful stimuli and that the fish performed strange behaviours. They rocked from side to side, they rubbed their snouts into the gravel, they didn’t feed during this prolonged period of stimulation which was approximately three hours. Interviewer – Do they actually suffer though, the fishing angling community would say, and have said before, there brains aren’t sufficiently developed enough to experience pain in the way that other animals or that we do. L.S. – Well, that’s true, I would say that fish pain is nothing like human pain but then I’d say mammalian pain is nothing like human pain, pain in birth is nothing like human pain. We can’t get inside the head of a fish to know exactly what it’s feeling but since they have the same nerves and also show signs of suffering and discomfort during this kind of stimulation then why doubt that they do feel pain. It’s just probably nothing like our experience of pain Interviewer – So do you think this is going to fuel the debate about whether angling is cruel and should be banned? L.S. – I think it will be relevant to that, I, not anti angling myself because we eat fish so there is a benefit to humans but I think it will provide quite strong evidence and I hope that what will happen is that the government will take it on board and improve the regulations with respect to treatment of fish. Interviewer – We’ll see what our callers and the anglers of Suffolk think, Lynn thank you Dr Lynn Sneddon. Later in our programme we’ll be talking to a local angler to find out his views on this latest research that proves according to Dr Lynn Sneddon there that fish actually do feel pain, it’ll be one of our main talking points on the show today and I’d love to talk to you if you are an angler. 01473212121. Do fish feel pain, is it time that angling should be looked at as being a cruel sport or would you go along with what other anglers have told me in the past that the fishes brain just ain’t developed enough to really understand what’s going on and it might notice that something’s array but it really just carries on doing what it normally does. Part two Interviewer - Barry Reid is the Suffolk representative of the Amalgamated Angling Association, a keen angler himself, Barry good morning to you. B.R. - Good morning. Interviewer - What are your thoughts on this latest research? B.R. - Well research is always of value isn’t it but it’s a bit like expert witnesses there’s always another example. This one seems to have come hard on the heels of a major report in February this year from a Professor James Rose of the University of Wyoming, a man I might add who is widely regarded as the worlds leading experts on fish, and he’s confirmed that, after many many years of research, that fish do not feel pain. So we have an immediate conflict between the experts. Interviewer - You have been looking over your shoulder the angling community for some time. There are people who have got you in their sites. B.R. - That’s quite true yes but anglers by their very nature are very environmentally aware. Lets not forget how well anglers look after the environment and continually monitor the conditions of lakes, rivers and all the rest of it and indeed go to the extent of taking private prosecutions against those that do cause environmental damage. But yes certainly we have an eye on the anti angling brigade. Interviewer - As far as this new research is concerned surely though if that is correct then something needs to be done about angling doesn’t it? If you’re putting a hook in a fishes mouth, dragging it out of the water, keeping it on the bank while you take a photograph, keeping it in a keep net for a long time, it ain’t having a nice time is it? B.R. - If you put it the way you put it you would think not wouldn’t you but anglers have taken great strides to ensure that fish are looked after very well. It’s not in their interest to damage fish in any shape or form. As regards dragging them out of the water, if you actually pull against something and cause it pain you would expect it to stop pulling, fish don’t do that. It’s much the same as a farmer leading a Bull, he puts a ring through the nose to lead a very large Bull, the Bull follows because he doesn’t want to be in pain. Interviewer - Yes but you love it when a fish fights don’t you. When a fish fights, you see John Wilson on the telly he’s struggling going way hey look at this, look at this having a good old fight and the poor things trying to get off. B.R. - Yes, part of the sport is playing the fish to the bank but what I’m actually saying is that if that fish was in pain would it be pulling in that way. Surely it would go with the line of resistance not against it. Interviewer - I know that many anglers do try and look after the fish as you say, when it’s caught, when it’s landed, when it’s put back you still though do have accidents you see dead fish floating on rivers, on lakes, some of the immature fish for instance are caught and the hook does them no good whatsoever if they swallow it too far down. B.R. - There are some unfortunate incidents in any sport as there are in life in general. One of the main stays of the National federation of Anglers for instance is to educate anglers and angling has really got that side of things together now with almost professional coaches so that youngsters can be taken on board and taught how to treat fish properly, how to handle them, how to look after them in general so whatever incidences of that nature there are are obviously very unfortunate but they are an absolute minimum that can be achieved. Interviewer - Well we are going to be talking about it this morning Barry, thanks for joining us on the programme, Barry Reid, so what do you think, will this put you off fishing, do you think fishing is barbaric you can call me now…………...

11th Feb 2004......another birthday. hey elton, no excuse not to send everybody a card now!!!!

The media love anything contravertial. when I contacted the nFA for advice on the report they told me that following the press release that fish did not feel pain they had a total of 4 media enquiries. At the time I contacted them at about 4pm on the day before the official release of the fish do feel pain report, they had already had 14 media enquiries. It is well known that negative press sells papers, how often do you hear good news on tv. I'm afraid its the world we live in and there is not much we can do to stop it. As long as we keep our house in order and support the various groups that represent angling then I think it is the best we can achhieve.

Peter, she actually said on her radio suffolk interview that she was not anti angling (I taped it and have typed a transcript). I got the impression that it was more to do with the farming of fish and the use of chemicals etc used in the process which is why she referred to the government needing to consider the introduction of legislation. I am fairly sure it was only the media who jumped on it and took it upon themselves to attack angling with it, of course I might be wrong but that was the impression I got.

having tried to read the actual scientific report, the experiments they did on the poor old trout actually made me feel quite sick. If anglers actually did what they did then it would probably get banned, pain or no pain. On a lighter note, my science may be way off, but isn't acetic acid another term for vinegar??? Maybe they did this bit during there lunch break.

Did my interview on Radio Suffolk this morning and thanks to having contacted the NFA for advice and information I don't think it went too badly. As I hit them straight away with the alternative reasearch they changes tack to the number of dead and injured fish that occured through the inevitable accidents. As it was a type of chat show programme I was interested to hear the feedback. Unfortunately work got in the way so i didn't hear too much of it but most of what I heard was supportive. I heard Peter Wallers response so perhaps he listened to the whole thing and can let us know how it went overall.By the way Peter, well done for getting the interviewer to admit he had some fishing gear in his garage.The whole thing just underlines the need for all anglers to belong to recognised groups and sites such as this. The information is there for us to use and you never know when you are going to need it. Thank god for people like Bruno and Elton, many thanks for all your help and support.