Vagabond

As a Norfolkman, I must support Peter Waller. Real salt-of-the earth types there, and the beer is good - none of yer over-hopped southern beers, or the acidic gnats p... from those people that also market tea-bags up north. First day at work I was confronted by a bloke who said "Aah cooms fra' Yoorkshire, and aah says what aah thinks" To which my response was " You're someone arter my own haart, bor, a man of few words" I think he is still working that one out. Moved south when a kid, after sixty years am almost accepted by the sturdy yeomen of rural Sussex - unofficial motto "Won't be druv" ( part of irregular verb - "I am firm, you are obstinate, (s)he is a pig-headed fool") Northern women are fine though - my late first wife was a lass from the Peak District, and I went north again to the dales for Norma, my second wife - as a previous poster said, no wonder those blokes from north of the Trent are miffed. How to wind up a Yorkshireman - refer to him as a midlander, and when he gets shirty, suggest "The North starts at Darlington lad". Its all good fun though, and I hope taken as such - and I haven't even mentioned Welsh sheep sh...sh...shearers.

As a Norfolkman, I must support Peter Waller. Real salt-of-the earth types there, and the beer is good - none of yer over-hopped southern beers, or the acidic gnats p... from those people that also market tea-bags up north. First day at work I was confronted by a bloke who said "Aah cooms fra' Yoorkshire, and aah says what aah thinks" To which my response was " You're someone arter my own haart, bor, a man of few words" I think he is still working that one out. Moved south when a kid, after sixty years am almost accepted by the sturdy yeomen of rural Sussex - unofficial motto "Won't be druv" ( part of irregular verb - "I am firm, you are obstinate, (s)he is a pig-headed fool") Northern women are fine though - my late first wife was a lass from the Peak District, and I went north again to the dales for Norma, my second wife - as a previous poster said, no wonder those blokes from north of the Trent are miffed. How to wind up a Yorkshireman - refer to him as a midlander, and when he gets shirty, suggest "The North starts at Darlington lad". Its all good fun though, and I hope taken as such - and I haven't even mentioned Welsh sheep sh...sh...shearers.

As a Norfolkman, I must support Peter Waller. Real salt-of-the earth types there, and the beer is good - none of yer over-hopped southern beers, or the acidic gnats p... from those people that also market tea-bags up north. First day at work I was confronted by a bloke who said "Aah cooms fra' Yoorkshire, and aah says what aah thinks" To which my response was " You're someone arter my own haart, bor, a man of few words" I think he is still working that one out. Moved south when a kid, after sixty years am almost accepted by the sturdy yeomen of rural Sussex - unofficial motto "Won't be druv" ( part of irregular verb - "I am firm, you are obstinate, (s)he is a pig-headed fool") Northern women are fine though - my late first wife was a lass from the Peak District, and I went north again to the dales for Norma, my second wife - as a previous poster said, no wonder those blokes from north of the Trent are miffed. How to wind up a Yorkshireman - refer to him as a midlander, and when he gets shirty, suggest "The North starts at Darlington lad". Its all good fun though, and I hope taken as such - and I haven't even mentioned Welsh sheep sh...sh...shearers.

Phone - Imagine a tug of war team of eight men pulling on a rope. The strain on the rope is the same, whether the other end is held by eight men pulling in the opposite direction during a real tug o' war or tied to a tree on practice night. In technical terms - one of Newton's laws " for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" So if you have bent a rod to its test-curve of two pounds, the fish feels a pull of two pounds, you feel a pull of two pounds, and the strain on the line is two pounds (NOT four) Certainly the drag is not meant to be the main means of landing a fish - rather it is a safety mechanism if the fish makes a sudden lunge. Line stretch is another safety mechanism (in some styles of fishing in Britain they use elastic as part of their line on a long pole - no reel) The real problem (no pun intended) was a lot of bad advice given when the fixed spool was first marketed here. One manufacturer said "All that is required is to set the clutch, keep the rod up and keep winding" which is just about the worst piece of fishing advice I have ever heard. I agree that if you intend C & R it is better to give the fish a bit of stick to land it quickly - but of course it is no good pulling so hard as to risk a break. Many anglers overestimate how hard a fish pulls - don't forget the fish has most of the rod length as leverage against you. I had a dramatic illustration of leverage recently when catching snoek from a commercial boat in S Africa. Time to land a seven-pound snoek on a hand-line - 10 seconds. Time to land a seven-pound snoek when I had a go with a nine-foot rod - 10 minutes.

Phone - Imagine a tug of war team of eight men pulling on a rope. The strain on the rope is the same, whether the other end is held by eight men pulling in the opposite direction during a real tug o' war or tied to a tree on practice night. In technical terms - one of Newton's laws " for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" So if you have bent a rod to its test-curve of two pounds, the fish feels a pull of two pounds, you feel a pull of two pounds, and the strain on the line is two pounds (NOT four) Certainly the drag is not meant to be the main means of landing a fish - rather it is a safety mechanism if the fish makes a sudden lunge. Line stretch is another safety mechanism (in some styles of fishing in Britain they use elastic as part of their line on a long pole - no reel) The real problem (no pun intended) was a lot of bad advice given when the fixed spool was first marketed here. One manufacturer said "All that is required is to set the clutch, keep the rod up and keep winding" which is just about the worst piece of fishing advice I have ever heard. I agree that if you intend C & R it is better to give the fish a bit of stick to land it quickly - but of course it is no good pulling so hard as to risk a break. Many anglers overestimate how hard a fish pulls - don't forget the fish has most of the rod length as leverage against you. I had a dramatic illustration of leverage recently when catching snoek from a commercial boat in S Africa. Time to land a seven-pound snoek on a hand-line - 10 seconds. Time to land a seven-pound snoek when I had a go with a nine-foot rod - 10 minutes.

Hi, Gone-fishin - tell us a bit more about where you intend fishing Commercial trout lakes - like Chalk Springs at Arundel ? (good but expensive) Chalk streams like the Meon ? (even more expensive) Chi gravel pits for rudd etc ? The Arun for Mullet ? :cool: Or where ? Then we can be a bit more specific in our advice.

A 4 lb tench can only exert a 4 lb pull on the line if you try and lift it out of the water! IN the water, the fish will be exerting a pull of around a pound - as a rule of thumb, a fish in water can exert a pull of about 20% of its weight in air, but lets give the tench credit for pulling a bit harder than most fish. The one exception might be if a weeded fish hits a tight line with its tail - that sort of shock might bust a 4 lb line. I would agree with Gaffer that it is best to set the clutch on the loose side and use a finger on the spool to increase braking power when needed. Ideally, set the clutch to yield when the rod reaches a quarter circle (ie at the "test curve" figure) What is useful is to try and lift various weights from about four ounces upward with your tench rod - and keep a mental picture of how much your rod bends at these weights, which in turn will give you an idea of how much pressure your line is under when playing a fish. You will be amazed at how difficult it is to lift a couple of pounds with the average tench rod ! I once landed a carp just over twenty pounds which took a small bait intended for roach - I was using four lb line on a 14 ft roach rod at the time - but there is nothing particularly clever about landing that carp - many experienced anglers could have done the same provided the swim was snag free (which in my case it was). So obviously, at no time was that 20 lb carp exerting a pull of more than four pounds on the line. However, this does NOT mean I recommend 4 lb line for carp! PS Albert Buckley caught the then record carp of 26 lb on 4X gut - a breaking strain of around 3 lb - now that WAS skilful, particularly as there were snags in the water. [ 09 March 2002, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

A 4 lb tench can only exert a 4 lb pull on the line if you try and lift it out of the water! IN the water, the fish will be exerting a pull of around a pound - as a rule of thumb, a fish in water can exert a pull of about 20% of its weight in air, but lets give the tench credit for pulling a bit harder than most fish. The one exception might be if a weeded fish hits a tight line with its tail - that sort of shock might bust a 4 lb line. I would agree with Gaffer that it is best to set the clutch on the loose side and use a finger on the spool to increase braking power when needed. Ideally, set the clutch to yield when the rod reaches a quarter circle (ie at the "test curve" figure) What is useful is to try and lift various weights from about four ounces upward with your tench rod - and keep a mental picture of how much your rod bends at these weights, which in turn will give you an idea of how much pressure your line is under when playing a fish. You will be amazed at how difficult it is to lift a couple of pounds with the average tench rod ! I once landed a carp just over twenty pounds which took a small bait intended for roach - I was using four lb line on a 14 ft roach rod at the time - but there is nothing particularly clever about landing that carp - many experienced anglers could have done the same provided the swim was snag free (which in my case it was). So obviously, at no time was that 20 lb carp exerting a pull of more than four pounds on the line. However, this does NOT mean I recommend 4 lb line for carp! PS Albert Buckley caught the then record carp of 26 lb on 4X gut - a breaking strain of around 3 lb - now that WAS skilful, particularly as there were snags in the water. [ 09 March 2002, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

Loved that second one - reminds me of an incident from my National Service days. At training camp we slept in long huts, 22 beds to a hut. 21 blokes and a spare bed in our hut. In our hut there were three Scots - Lofty Jock (6'2") , Haggis, and Wee Jock (5'3") Lofty slept at the far end near the back door leading to the "ablutions" block. One night Lofty came in well pickled, couldn't make it to his own bed, so collapsed onto the empty one. During the night the physiological consequences of nine pints of beer plus chasers gradually overcame his stupor, and he half awoke, feeling the need. Still half awake, he staggered to the end of his bed, turned right, took twelve paces, turned right again, and took four more paces, and relieved his feelings. Unfortunately, this routine worked provided the starting point was his own bed, but starting from the spare bed, it brought him standing over Wee Jock's bed. Wee Jock ( his nickname now cruelly ironic) awoke to find the well-known RAF phrase "being p*ssed upon from a great height" was literally true in his case. The resultant commotion awoke everyone, and when the lights went on we saw Wee Jock jumping up a foot in the air to land his punches - it was the big fella we had to rescue when Wee Jock hads half-killed him.

Loved that second one - reminds me of an incident from my National Service days. At training camp we slept in long huts, 22 beds to a hut. 21 blokes and a spare bed in our hut. In our hut there were three Scots - Lofty Jock (6'2") , Haggis, and Wee Jock (5'3") Lofty slept at the far end near the back door leading to the "ablutions" block. One night Lofty came in well pickled, couldn't make it to his own bed, so collapsed onto the empty one. During the night the physiological consequences of nine pints of beer plus chasers gradually overcame his stupor, and he half awoke, feeling the need. Still half awake, he staggered to the end of his bed, turned right, took twelve paces, turned right again, and took four more paces, and relieved his feelings. Unfortunately, this routine worked provided the starting point was his own bed, but starting from the spare bed, it brought him standing over Wee Jock's bed. Wee Jock ( his nickname now cruelly ironic) awoke to find the well-known RAF phrase "being p*ssed upon from a great height" was literally true in his case. The resultant commotion awoke everyone, and when the lights went on we saw Wee Jock jumping up a foot in the air to land his punches - it was the big fella we had to rescue when Wee Jock hads half-killed him.

They are known as "stink-alive" as the flesh deteriorates very rapidly. If you gut and behead them IMMEDIATELY on capture, store in a cool box, and get them cooked within an hour or so, they are not too bad - with plenty of onion and spices they are OK for fish cakes. Otherwise they are awful - If I were a spaniel fed on stale pout I would definitely bite the hand that fed me BTW Salar, did you get to read the story of Mr Castwell?

I have fished off the Antipodes Islands (and I mean the REAL Antipodes Islands - not Kiwi or Oz) in the Southern Ocean. Caught an Orange-throat Notothen about 3lb or so on a cooked prawn (saved from lunch) - hard fighting all the way up from 300 ft - as they have no swim-bladder to distend and cripple them. Does anyone want to see its picture? [ 08 March 2002, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

I have fished off the Antipodes Islands (and I mean the REAL Antipodes Islands - not Kiwi or Oz) in the Southern Ocean. Caught an Orange-throat Notothen about 3lb or so on a cooked prawn (saved from lunch) - hard fighting all the way up from 300 ft - as they have no swim-bladder to distend and cripple them. Does anyone want to see its picture? [ 08 March 2002, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

You could be right Newt - the biggest river roach I ever caught was whilst I was freelining a lobworm for chub. :cool: However, my mates were quick to point that it didn't count, as I wasn't fishing for it.

You could be right Newt - the biggest river roach I ever caught was whilst I was freelining a lobworm for chub. :cool: However, my mates were quick to point that it didn't count, as I wasn't fishing for it.

Thanks for your replies, Alan and Steve - I'd hoped for something like that when I started the thread - so far, I have had no repeat captures at Deerdrink, when I do, it will be time for pastures new. Alans point on the shape being age/size related is worth looking at in other waters - it may be this simple answer is the right one, rather than invoking sub-speciation as an explanation. The jury is still out though. I have rather neglected perch of recent years - it was only meeting up with Steve Burke that fired me up to have a go..... and it was due to Steve that I chose Deerdrink - originally went there to try out maggot flavours on the prolific roach there, and noticed soimething was having a go at the roach as I slipped them back - so thanks Steve, twice.

Thanks for your replies, Alan and Steve - I'd hoped for something like that when I started the thread - so far, I have had no repeat captures at Deerdrink, when I do, it will be time for pastures new. Alans point on the shape being age/size related is worth looking at in other waters - it may be this simple answer is the right one, rather than invoking sub-speciation as an explanation. The jury is still out though. I have rather neglected perch of recent years - it was only meeting up with Steve Burke that fired me up to have a go..... and it was due to Steve that I chose Deerdrink - originally went there to try out maggot flavours on the prolific roach there, and noticed soimething was having a go at the roach as I slipped them back - so thanks Steve, twice.

So what do they say in North Carolina ? Waiting with bated breath...

So what do they say in North Carolina ? Waiting with bated breath...

Congratulations Mike

Congratulations Mike

ROFLMAO

ROFLMAO

quote: Originally posted by chesters1: [QB (i havent bought any for years (tightwad)by carefully reopening it with a knife. ] Chesters, I must be an even tighter wad than you - if fishing on club waters I often come home with more shot than I started out with! Discarded line is still a menace in places - I always collect it, take it home, cut it up and bin it. The reward is that often it has shot attached which go into my tackle bag. I've even found two sets of discarded line that each had a rod and reel attached! BTW I rarely need to use a knife blade to re-open the shot - my thumb nail does the job very well (Hint - if your nails are too soft, perhaps its lack of calcium - so drink more milk and less beer )

quote: Originally posted by chesters1: [QB (i havent bought any for years (tightwad)by carefully reopening it with a knife. ] Chesters, I must be an even tighter wad than you - if fishing on club waters I often come home with more shot than I started out with! Discarded line is still a menace in places - I always collect it, take it home, cut it up and bin it. The reward is that often it has shot attached which go into my tackle bag. I've even found two sets of discarded line that each had a rod and reel attached! BTW I rarely need to use a knife blade to re-open the shot - my thumb nail does the job very well (Hint - if your nails are too soft, perhaps its lack of calcium - so drink more milk and less beer )