andy_youngs

I think the real concern, is that there are a great many anglers out there that confuse conservation with artificial stocking of freshwater game fish such as salmon, trout, barbel etc. They assume (not unreasonably) that because they suddenly start catching more, or bigger, fish, then that must logically indicate a healthier ecology. But of course, this is a smokescreen. For me, one of the saddest consequences has been the national recognition of a record wild barbel of 21lb 1oz from the Upper Ouse. But that is not a wild fish, and it robs our children of the opporturnity to try and outwit a worthy quarry on its own terms: all the mystic is gone: the only way to catch a fish like that these days is to grow it in a stock pond. I'm very sad, I'm very concerned, and I hope very much that it doesn't happen to the atlantic salmon.

thanks mate, just the sort of help I hoped to get

Doh ... OK, bit of a Homer Simpson moment there. I think my immediate concern is that there seems to be no central transparent register which records the numbers of fish that are artificially stocked into our freshwater waterways. If my holiday plans materialise, then I will be visiting the Tyne catchment shortly to fish for salmon (or possibly barbel). This is a river system which has historically boasted both a barbel population and a salmon population. What I'd really like to know is to what extent the elevation of this catchment to the most profilic salmon fishery in England is a result of artificial stocking. I think this is vital information, that every taxpayer should want to find out. I made a freedom of information request to the EA a few years ago, and the answer came back that there is no central register for fish introductions. So I then made a freedom of information request to the Government. I did eventually get a reply from the fisheries minister, George Eustace, but quite frankly it came at a stage in the negotiation when I was so fed up with the whole business that I have not persued it. That might change .....

My understanding is that the Tyne is the most productive salmon river in England at the moment. The Wear not far behind. So I thought I'd pay a visit. As soon as this heat wave ends, and the rains begin, I'll find a remote place to camp and give both rivers a trial. Any advice would be gratefully received.

Who are TAT? I've just googled it, but drawn a blank

I think I'm getting to grips with your point of view Barry. You're frustrated because the EA are imposing ideotic rules over elver harvesting in the west of the country. I'm frustrated because the EA have been systematically introducing non-native fish into the rivers in the east of the country for commercial gain. And the AT do **** all. Like you, I have no desire to join that organisation.

In my experience, it's unwise to try and prevent a citizen from navigating a river in France, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Scotland, or any other country in the EU with the exception of England and Wales. . In England and Wales, it's permissable to be abusive to strangers, so long as you have landowners consent. As far as the Habitats Directive is concerned, most countries in the EU generally try and avoid complliance with the content because it's inconvenient and it costs a hell of a lot of money.. So nothing ever changes.

Just following up on that, I guess the closest thing we have is the Habitats Directive. It's supposed to be a blanket legislation accross all of Europe, but of course it's application tends to be rather more selective than that. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31992L0043:EN:HTML

Interesting link Phone. No the UK doesn't have this kind of document on it's statute books. Our laws tend to be specific to either England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

Phone, the US fought it's war of indepence because it had to. It was nothing to do with dental floss, milk or talking nicely to strangers (although I accept these have been of unanticipated benificial consequence).

For goodness sake Phone, it's 'apples and pears'. There's no such comparing apples and ducks. It's like comparing ducks and geese. Apples and pears are completely different.

You did have it all to begin with. You had it right there in the palm of your hand. Your ancestors fought so that you didn't have to be dictated to by a class of ruling landowners in England. Don't deny your heritage Newt.

Please Barry, Corrmorants feed on many sources, dead carp and barbel amongst them. But it's unhelpful to raise the notion of feeding them to these preditors deliibrately. I'd prefer a balanced 'non-personal' discussion if possible.

No, I don't want to get pellets banned. And don't worry, I wont ask you to paddle the Wensum with me. I'd like to take you, but I've already spoken to the powers that be, and I'm afraid the truth is that you're not welcome on that river.

I'm glad it was you that brought the subject of civil war up rather than me. I agree, we don't want to go there. By opening this thread I expressly requested that this discussion should not be allowed to become personal. The Environment Agency in the UK has a different approach to the Environment Agency in the US. On this side of the pond, our institutions seem happy to spend vast sums of money preventing the great unwashed from navigating rivers which flow through private estates I reallly envy the yanks, having got rid of all that useless baggage several hundred years ago.