40 years old isn't life!

[ColinW]

"Stringing him up" may or may not deter his fellow pondlife.

What I will guarantee 100% is that it will stop him ever committing another crime of any sort and terminate his defective gene line.

[hembo]

Nail, hammer, head.

 

If the law had dealt with him more harshly at a younger age, he might not have killed the boy and ruined his own life in the process. From the reports, it was obvious from him being small that he was going to turn into a dangerous little sh!t if something wasn't done- and nothing was done. He's ultimately to blame for his own actions, but his parents, the education system, social services and the legal system all need to take a hard look at how they could have been prevented.

 

 

correct 100%

[Sportsman]

Nope , not at all.

Doing it this way is merely treating the problem and not curing it.

 

All that does is merely give them someone else to blame......"if only there were a policeman in the area......." .

 

What could be seen as pro-active would be to completely remove the offending article altogether , be it a knife or gun. Something that wouldn't lie very well with some people on here but , it IS the bullet or the blade that kills . Of course , with guns and serious weapons being so readily available nowadays what can be done????

 

Sorry, didn't quite understand your point.

Removing the knife or gun from whom? I thought that if someone was caught with an illegal weapon of any sort it would automatically be removed.

[kleinboet]

I watched a little set to outside a my local supermarket the other day.

A security officer employed by the chain, stopped a youngster (14 to 16 yrs old) and asked him to replace the items he had stolen. The little toe rag said "you can't TOUCH me - I know my rights. You can't even stop me walking away!" with that, he walked away!!

When the police arrived about 10 minutes later, the security officer could only describe the kid to the police, They eventually caught him, and he was brought back f-ing and blinding, shouting "you can't do anything - I'M a juvenile - and I know my human rights"

 

On the other side.

 

The pensioners have to live on less than £61.00 per week, with the government giving them a 2% increase each year, while a prisoner claiming HIS human rights) costs the government some £30,000.00 per year!!

 

And the human rights law is good for us???

Edited December 17, 2008 by kleinboet

[mr motorola]

Sorry, didn't quite understand your point.

Removing the knife or gun from whom? I thought that if someone was caught with an illegal weapon of any sort it would automatically be removed.

Yup , there lies the problem .

 

How are they getting their hands on them in the first place?

 

Stop the black / underground market for offensive weapons and you will be well on your way to cracking the problem.

 

And for what it's worth , the vile piece of sh1t ought be slayed , the good old fashioned way. A life for a life but , the problem with life in general , esp on this island nowadays is , is that way too much is taken into consideration when passing judgement on cases such as these and it can and does cloud the underlying factor and that is that this man , intentionally or not did pull the trigger of a gun and did kill a young lad. Pull it apart however you like , disect it however you will , mitigate all you can but , the cold hard fact is that a young lad is now DEAD because of some d1ckhead thinking he's something he's not and in possession of a lethal weapon.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

QUOTE (Steve Walker @ Dec 17 2008, 10:23 AM)

Nail, hammer, head.

 

If the law had dealt with him more harshly at a younger age, he might not have killed the boy and ruined his own life in the process. From the reports, it was obvious from him being small that he was going to turn into a dangerous little sh!t if something wasn't done- and nothing was done. He's ultimately to blame for his own actions, but his parents, the education system, social services and the legal system all need to take a hard look at how they could have been prevented

 

 

correct 100%

 

I am sorry but it is this kind of attitude which got us where we are today you cannot just lump them all together.

 

Blame the parents maybe to a certain extent but there has been many a heller that is beyond parental control, and kids like this do not react to kind words they need hard discipline.

 

Schools, social services have their hands tied, schools are not allowed any form of discipline now days, neither the public in general or the state system support schools in discipline.

 

The probation service is just some willy nilly affair without any teeth, magistrates are made up of people who have little worldly knowledge and are easy to mislead and have limited powers when it comes to juvenile delinquents.

 

Expelling them from schools is not the answer either, they need to be sent to short sharp training camps and made to behave themselves not sent out onto the streets to create mayhem.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Ken Davison South Wales

[snakey1]

Yup , there lies the problem .

 

How are they getting their hands on them in the first place?

 

Stop the black / underground market for offensive weapons and you will be well on your way to cracking the problem.

 

And for what it's worth , the vile piece of sh1t ought be slayed , the good old fashioned way. A life for a life but , the problem with life in general , esp on this island nowadays is , is that way too much is taken into consideration when passing judgement on cases such as these and it can and does cloud the underlying factor and that is that this man , intentionally or not did pull the trigger of a gun and did kill a young lad. Pull it apart however you like , disect it however you will , mitigate all you can but , the cold hard fact is that a young lad is now DEAD because of some d1ckhead thinking he's something he's not and in possession of a lethal weapon.

Firearms are unfortunately relatively easy to obtain illegally if you have the right(or wrong as the case maybe) connections, a lot are brought in from abroad by various methods(the customs men cannot watch every port and search every shipment/person coming into the country) some weapons are re-activated(though probably less than the papers would have you think in my opinion) and some have been in the country for years(think of the souveniers bought back by various armed forces personnel over the years).You cannot legally own a handgun in this country(all calibres from .22 to .500 and up have been banned(not including air pistols) you still can get black powder handguns legally but i don't recall ever seeing a report of one being used in a drive by etc) and yet the number of crimes involving them seems to be rising, knives are even more common with very few actual types being illegal (to own, as opposed to carry, the few that i can think of being flick knives, gravity knives, push daggers and balisong knives) you could try banning all knives and removing them from circulation but then your going to have a hell of a time carving your christmas turkey with a spoon. most knives carried by thugs aren't expensive well made brands like gerber, cold steel,buck etc but the cheap and cheerful kitchen knives that they can nick from their moms kitchen for nothing so i'm not sure how you could ever stop the trade in these weapons. You could hand out mandatory 10 year prison sentences for those caught carrying knives or firearms illegally, but you'd probably have to build a shed load of new prisons to accomodate all the new prisoners (and of course people would moan then because they wouldn't want one in their backyard)and even then i doubt it would stop the more hardcore criminal from carrying some kind of weapon (although it would be a start).

As for the death penalty as shown by America it doesn't work as a deterent, yes it does stop repeat offending, but what happens when the jury get it wrong (as they have been known to) and convict an innocent person unless your names Jesus you can't bring them back(you may say well its worth the risk but what happens if its you that gets wrongly convicted).

Life in prison should mean life however(with sentences running concurrently for multiple crimes to ensure so) with plenty of chain gang style hard labour thrown in.

Edited December 17, 2008 by snakey1

[captain cojones]

well said, its best to look at the root cause of the problem perhaps.

rather than just trying to deal with it, when it happens.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Firearms are unfortunately relatively easy to obtain illegally if you have the right(or wrong as the case maybe) connections, a lot are brought in from abroad by various methods(the customs men cannot watch every port and search every shipment/person coming into the country) some weapons are re-activated(though probably less than the papers would have you think in my opinion) and some have been in the country for years(think of the souveniers bought back by various armed forces personnel over the years).You cannot legally own a handgun in this country(all calibres from .22 to .500 and up have been banned(not including air pistols) you still can get black powder handguns legally but i don't recall ever seeing a report of one being used in a drive by etc) and yet the number of crimes involving them seems to be rising, knives are even more common with very few actual types being illegal (to own, as opposed to carry, the few that i can think of being flick knives, gravity knives, push daggers and balisong knives) you could try banning all knives and removing them from circulation but then your going to have a hell of a time carving your christmas turkey with a spoon. most knives carried by thugs aren't expensive well made brands like gerber, cold steel,buck etc but the cheap and cheerful kitchen knives that they can nick from their moms kitchen for nothing so i'm not sure how you could ever stop the trade in these weapons. You could hand out mandatory 10 year prison sentences for those caught carrying knives or firearms illegally, but you'd probably have to build a shed load of new prisons to accomodate all the new prisoners (and of course people would moan then because they wouldn't want one in their backyard)and even then i doubt it would stop the more hardcore criminal from carrying some kind of weapon (although it would be a start).

As for the death penalty as shown by America it doesn't work as a deterent, yes it does stop repeat offending, but what happens when the jury get it wrong (as they have been known to) and convict an innocent person unless your names Jesus you can't bring them back(you may say well its worth the risk but what happens if its you that gets wrongly convicted).

Life in prison should mean life however(with sentences running concurrently for multiple crimes to ensure so) with plenty of chain gang style hard labour thrown in.

 

I agree with a lot of what your saying apart from the death penalty bit. In the USA the process is such that vast numbers spend years on death row with many having sentences reduced to life on appeal.

 

If you look at KSA where murders are convicted and beheaded the next Friday killings are very few and far between and yet the country is awash with guns. Right before everyone shouts I know it is crude but you cannot deny it has the desired effect. Rape and other serious offenses are dealt with the same way and again it works, so I do not subscribe to the theory of it not working.

 

They have this little snot bang to rights and there is no question about his guilt and for the next twenty years he is going to cost the tax payer £600,000 with out building in rising cost, if he gets released then he will be thirty eight so very young still. He will come out with a chip on his shoulder a mile high and will without doubt re-offend, even if he had twenty years hard labour he would be the same or even worse.

 

I certainly do not have all the answers but I firmly believe you have to do something whilst they are young, this ASBO rubbish does not work, short sharp hard discipline will certainly thin out the numbers at an early stage, if the first dose fails back in with a birching and I am sure the message will go home that society is no longer prepared to accept their way of life.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Ken Davison South Wales

[kleinboet]

The only problem is that one of these days a disabled/OAP (who are now the targets of these young gangs) is going to get hold of a gun and when a gang thinks he's an easy target he will shoot the little b*****ds!!

 

Guess who will go to jail?

 

And don't tell me that the youngsters will take the gun off him - they will be too busy dodging bullets, and when they see their mates dropping they will run like h*ll! The only reason they are picking on them is because they cant fight back!!!!!!!!!!