Holding back

[Andy Macfarlane]

I think on rivers it's not so much about the fish pulling the float under. Once the fish has the bait in its mouth the float will carry on down stream a little and the the float will be pulled under by the current just like it would if you snag the bottom.

 

Thanks but that's not what I'm talking about at all. What you're talking about, would mean the float always travels downstream of the bait and then dip under, with the bottom of the float pointing directly at the bait and the float disappearing once the line between the float and the bait tightens and the flow overcomes the float. I know the difference between a float being under by the flow and a fish moving off with the bait.

I'm talking about minnows pulling floats under in all directions (up or downstream) AND they do the same thing in stillwaters, so thanks but no, not what I mean at all.

I stopped striking at snags when I was 10.

[P@UL]

E

Edited October 23, 2014 by P@UL

[Andy Macfarlane]

Ah right....I see. I will day one thing abut minnows (and maybe stickles too) though, they're the only fish I know that won't drop a bait once they've taken it. I've lifted both out hanging onto the bait with the hook nowhere near their mouths. You'd think they'd let go.

[P@UL]

E

Edited October 23, 2014 by P@UL

[The Flying Tench]

Despite the allready mentioned reason of lifting the bait in the water so it can fish on the drop again

 

Now here's a tricky point that had never occurred to me. I had thought there were two reasons for holding back, but really there are three:

 

a) to slow the bait to the speed of the current (or whatever other speed they want it) during the trot down

to hold the bait still in a taking area such as under a bush at the end of the trot

c) to lift the bait so it can drop down attractively at different times in the trot as if it had just dropped into the water

 

The point that occurs to me is that I don't think you can have both and c), because will need much heavier shotting than c). Am I right?

[Dick Dastardly]

I reckon so John.My old match fishing mentor used to say about selecting the amount of weight needed to do the job then use a float that will carry it but also of the right style and shape to be used to best effect to either run through or be held back etc etc. Im not so sure that option b is ever really possible unless extreme weight is used.

[Steve Walker]

There is a swim I used to fish on the river Etherow, which used to produce cracking bags of big roach - I think my PB almost certainly came from there, but I had no scales and wouldn't like to guess whether it made the magic number. Anyway, it was a fast, shallow riffle which dropped off into deeper water under some trees. The trick was to wade out and stand in the middle of the river, trickling maggots in at your feet. You then aimed to get the float to the drop-off and then just hold it there. You didn't so much see the bites as feel them, with most fish hooking themselves. I think we fished overdepth, but not overshotted or even with particularly large stick floats. I believe that the roach were used to taking maggots at all levels of the water, because of the turbulence caused by the sudden change in depth, and so were happy to take bait which was held back hard and wafting up towards the surface. I caught some grayling at Timsbury using a similar tactic.

[Vagabond]

big roach ........... were happy to take bait which was held back hard and wafting up towards the surface.

 

I caught some grayling at Timsbury using a similar tactic.

 

 

That brings back memories of my National Service in the 1950s

 

I was stationed in Wessex, and realised that for the first time in my life I was in grayling country. By diligent searching I found some free fishing (or perhaps, in retrospect, it was merely a stretch that was devoid of "Private Fishing" signs )

 

I located a shoal of grayling, and trotted tiny red worms down to them. Held back when my float reached the shoal. Not a single bite. I found another shoal - same thing happened.

 

Next weekend I was home on a "48" pass, and consulted "This Fishing" by Capt L A Parker ("Skipper") - my bible on clear river fishing. Skipper was adamant that when fishing for grayling it was essential the float should run through unchecked.

 

"That's the answer" I thought, and so it proved - running through resulted in firm hittable bites and my first bag of grayling. Several other bags followed, until my National Service came to an end.

 

So for years I believed that holding back was deadly for river silvers (I had caught plenty of roach that way), but grayling needed an unchecked run through.

 

Until the 1970s, when two local clubs stocked grayling into their Wealden streams.

 

Since then, I have caught grayling (usually as part of a mixed bag as they are fairly thinly spread) in the Sussex Ouse and the Medway by holding back, by stret pegging, by touch legering, by float legering and on various swim feeder rigs.

 

So why should Skipper (one of the best river anglers of his time) give that advice? and why did it work for me then? .....and seems irrelevant now?

 

Have the habits of grayling changed over the years ? Common sense tells me that is unlikely.

 

I did wonder if Skippers advice was only applicable to chalk streams and grayling behaved differently in the more turbid waters of Medway and Sussex Ouse - but your experience at Timsbury suggests otherwise.

 

Comments from regular clear-water grayling catchers welcome.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Vagabond

[Anderoo]

Now here's a tricky point that had never occurred to me. I had thought there were two reasons for holding back, but really there are three:

 

a) to slow the bait to the speed of the current (or whatever other speed they want it) during the trot down

to hold the bait still in a taking area such as under a bush at the end of the trot

c) to lift the bait so it can drop down attractively at different times in the trot as if it had just dropped into the water

 

The point that occurs to me is that I don't think you can have both and c), because will need much heavier shotting than c). Am I right?

 

There's also a 4th! This is most useful in the summer when there are beds of weed. Holding back hard as your float approaches a weedbed (or other obsticle) allows you to get your bait and float over the top of it without snagging.

 

I have caught very few fish (and no notable ones) by holding the bait still, or by lifting the bait so it wafts attractively. I catch almost all fish by holding back lightly so that the float travels downstream slightly slower than the surface current. However, on some days I catch more by letting the float go down unchecked, as Vagabond describes. These days are the minority, though.

 

You usually know when you're about to get a bite when trotting - it just feels 'right'. The float goes down the exact line you want it to, at just the right speed, and without bumps or jerks, and it gets to the hotspot just right...magic!

[Steve Walker]

Interesting observations, Dave. It was in a very particular type of swim, though, and may not be generally applicable. I don't remember making much use of hard holding back elsewhere on that day, though the 'pin does slow things down slightly. I think the key thing is a sharp drop-off, which I suspect creates a fast and turbulent flow near to the surface and a slower and less turbulent region deeper down. I think the fish are used to hitting food items passing overhead, and perhaps caught in the turbulence rather than passing straight through.