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Countryside Alliance and FACT in the dock.


trent.barbeler

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quote:


Originally posted by Newt:

NRA (National Rifle Association) even though I no longer shoot but I like what they do and think we are a better country because of their work.[/QB]


That's gotta be a contentious one Especially if Michael Moore is around ..

 

A quick quote from the NRA website :

 

"Playing Chicken Roulette

 

Imagine that your local government makes it a crime to engage in an activity that you believe to be constitutionally protected--like possessing a handgun in your home for self-defense.....Too bad if you live in Washington, D.C."

 

I thought the "right to bear arms" was geared towards the rapid formation of a militia for defence of the homeland, rather than defence of one's home.

 

And supporting the legal ownership of handguns for "self-defence" will raise a few eyebrows in the U.K. , Newt.

 

regards

Bleeding heart liberal pinko, with bacon on top.

 

 

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GlennB:

And supporting the legal ownership of handguns for "self-defence" will raise a few eyebrows in the U.K. , Newt.

 

regards

Handguns for self-defence are permitted in Northern Ireland, part of the UK!

https://www.harbourbridgelakes.com/


Pisces mortui solum cum flumine natant

You get more bites on Anglers Net

 

 

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GlennB:

And supporting the legal ownership of handguns for "self-defence" will raise a few eyebrows in the U.K. , Newt.

I know you folks have some strange ideas but I like you guys and gals anyway. :D
" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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Hi Guys

 

Sorry off line yesterday so just catching back up with this thread.

 

"Mike Heylin is a good egg who when born nearly a century ago, came out not as a human being, but an 8lb angling politician!"

 

Well Lee there are days when it feels like a century ago but I would like to assure you all that I am no older than anyone else born in '46. I was not born an angling politician. I was involved in party politics, from an early age, but gave that up to do something useful!!

 

Slodger, your initial response was not taken as a criticism. It made me realise that my message had not got across. My failure, not yours.

 

You say you don't know what is needed or wanted. What I want is to hear what anglers want, then perhaps we can move forward along some of those lines. Already this thread is developing arguments which can be used elsewhere to get us moving forward.

 

Remember the NAC? It fell down because of the move towards "individual membership". Times are different now and I hope that others will see the benefits to FACT of having a strong membership amongst anglers, but it won't happen overnight. It does however remain an aim of SAA, working within FACT, and of some of the others around the table.

 

Lyn JAGB, now the JADB (Joint Angling Development Bodies), was never set up to be a political voice for angling. It has responsibilities for development and coaching and continues to carry those within FACT.

 

What everyone needs to realise is that we have a number of organisations working together for the future of the sport. Not all of them see things the way you and I may. So there will be discussion and debate about these issues and all the members of FACT need to be persuaded that the big picture is one that is worth pursuing for the benefit to angling, rather than protecting the institutions we now represent. That is a big task and will need big men/women to carry the flag for anglers. The fact that all those groups have joined FACT indicates to me that a wind of change is blowing and we can achieve what anglers want, maybe not tomorrow but sooner rather than later.

 

The problem we have, in many walks of life, not just in angling, is committees. FACT is effectively a committee. And like all committees it is in danger of simply being a debating chamber with nothing getting done. The best organisations function well and effectively because one man/woman leads from the front. That man or woman is still to be found for FACT, recognised for the strengths they have and enabled/allowed to get on with the job.

 

Whoever does it will find it a thankless task because of the internal pressures of committee structures. It will need tact and diplomacy to bring differing views together, to persuade, not only group leaders but also group memberships, that change is needed, desired and can be fruitful. It needs a vision of what could be rather than what is. It needs faith that anglers will join an organisation which delivers for anglers and the sport. It needs someone who can devote themselves 24/7/365 to the task. And to do that it needs to pay that person well. No volunteer can be expected to commit that amount of time and energy, if his bills are not getting paid.

 

There was a comment here about the members of FACT paying for the new organisation. Well we did. All the subscribing members of FACT have contributed, some beyond their means, to get FACT up and running. But none of the members of FACT have strong bank balances, so they are not a long term solution to funding for FACT.

 

We see the first task of an executive officer as developing funding sources, perhaps even anglers, supporting the structures within FACT and developing a PR campaign outwith FACT, aimed not just at anglers but at the whole community, to influence those who might take decisions affecting our sport and to encourage parents to allow their children to participate.

 

Any volunteers?

 

There was a small piece in both AT and AM last week regarding the search for this individual. The silence has been deafening. Contact me by email if you are interested, all my details are in my profile.

 

Thanks for listening

 

Mike

Join the SAA today for only £10.00 and help defend angling.

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I have to say up here in Scotland Ive been involved in teaching kids to fish, this was sponsered by the scottish countryside alliance. they have started a charity to get kids fishing, I am not a member of the SCA, and dont support the idea of hunting with dogs,(or any of the political stances that they espouce) but I have to say its the only positive step Ive, seen anyone take ,recently that gives kids achance to ,at least try fishing.

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Mike,

 

I'm not sure what levels of funding are required, however one idea that springs to mind is a direct levy on the SAA subscription fee. I've happily paid the twenty quid subs up until it was lowered to a tenner, presumably to encourage more members? Why not whack it back up to twenty a year with the proviso that half goes directly to FACT? Or will an increase inhibit membership? If all nine current members of the alliance did that it'd be a start, no?

Slodger (Chris Hammond.)

 

'We should be fishin'

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Dear Mike, All,

 

Good post. Very informative.

 

You said;

 

"You say you don't know what is needed or wanted. What I want is to hear what anglers want, then perhaps we can move forward along some of those lines. Already this thread is developing arguments which can be used elsewhere to get us moving forward."

 

I would like;

 

To see the eventual creation of a "single" UK national organisation tasked at looking after "ALL" anglers interests. I want to see this organisation open to all anglers either as individuals or groups of anglers. I want this organisation to be sustainably funded by its membership. I want to see such an organisation embrace a pure angling context as well as a political one. I believe (hope) that FACT will be a stepping stone towards that aim. I am pretty certain that FACT will not be the final vehicle that takes us there.

 

Mike then said;

 

"What everyone needs to realise is that we have a number of organisations working together for the future of the sport. Not all of them see things the way you and I may. So there will be discussion and debate about these issues and all the members of FACT need to be persuaded that the big picture is one that is worth pursuing for the benefit to angling, rather than protecting the institutions we now represent."

 

Mikes words copied above are undoubtedly for me at any rate, the most courageous ever written on a public forum by an angling politician. The whole paragraph illustrates perfectly what’s at stake and what’s needed now to move angling forward into the present centaury.

 

"rather than protecting the institutions we now represent."

 

Mike said;

 

"Remember the NAC? It fell down because of the move towards "individual membership".

 

It also fell down because of "rather than protecting the institutions we now represent." So I'm clinging on to the concept that “Times are different now and I hope that others will see the benefits to FACT of having a strong membership amongst anglers,” Because if a change of attitude does not come from certain organisations inside FACT, I fear for political angling's future.

 

Lyn asked a question and you answered her honestly Mike when you said;

 

"Lyn JAGB, now the JADB (Joint Angling Development Bodies), was never set up to be a political voice for angling. It has responsibilities for development and coaching and continues to carry those within FACT."

 

Is Lyn now confused? I always thought that the JAGB were the government recognised "Joint Angling Governing Bodies". Recognised as such due to their very large memberships? A renaming exorcise whilst handy for political reasons does little for grass roots understanding surely?

 

Mike said;

 

“But none of the members of FACT have strong bank balances, so they are not a long term solution to funding for FACT."

 

In total fairness Mike would it be fair to assume that all FACT orgs realise that they only scraped the bottom of a very empty barrel to get FACT up and running? And would it be equally fair to say that the same orgs realise that finally, a long term solution for sustainable funding now remains a crucial issue for the board to deal with?

 

Mike went on to say;

 

"We see the first task of an executive officer as developing funding sources, perhaps even anglers, supporting the structures within FACT and developing a PR campaign outwith FACT, aimed not just at anglers but at the whole community, to influence those who might take decisions affecting our sport and to encourage parents to allow their children to participate.

 

Any volunteers?

 

There was a small piece in both AT and AM last week regarding the search for this individual. The silence has been deafening. Contact me by email if you are interested, all my details are in my profile."

 

I am not in the least bit surprised that no one has come forward to apply for this job Mike.

 

The tasks you list for the EO to perform are in actual fact top flight requisites for any captain of industry to perform. Such a list requires the dedicated skills of not just one company executive, but several rolled into one!! This man might well exist but head hunting such an individual would involve a hefty salary being offered to the candidate. FACT is drastically under-funded Mike. How on earth does FACT expect to fund such a position if it has no funds to begin with?

 

FACT already has the expertise within its orgs to develop effective PR aimed at funding itself via individual membership. What’s really needed in FACT's first instance is not the hiring of the EO, but a change of political will that moves towards sustainable funding that will pay the wages?

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

 

[ 23. March 2005, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: trent.barbeler ]

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:confused: :confused: :confused: I must dig out all my emails from Malcolm Hanson.

 

I have heard rumours that there is a 85k salary on offer for the above position.

 

Jim Doyle, Les Webber - JAC (Uk) - Junior Course Angling (UK) has already got angling on several schools National Curriculum, yes, he has put together a course of lessons on angling that take place in the classroom during school hours.

 

He is doing this all off his own back and charges the schools nothing for doing it. All the packs he hands out is done so out of his own pocket.

 

I am organising some fund raising event for him to help buy all the stuff he gives to the kids. I have Trefor West & Tony Miles coming down next month to do a talk.

 

So you see, there is something happening in the South as well, thanks to Les :) :cool:

 

lyn

One life, live it, love it, fish it!

 

 

 

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Well, that's me out of here! I have posted but get ignored. You can argue all you want - FACT is doomed to falure!! Why - because the angler at the water hasn't got a clue what you're on about. Until you learn the lessons of the NFA etc. you're going to get nowhere!

 

Unless the rank and file angler is involved, how the h*ll do you think they are going to support FACT.

 

Most on this site are arguing on behalf of a "pet" organisation. You are all talking of putting these organisations under one roof. WHY?? They are losing members because THEY HAVE LOST TOUCH with sticky end of angling!! :mad:

 

[ 24. March 2005, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: kleinboet ]

5460c629-1c4a-480e-b4a4-8faa59fff7d.jpg

 

fishing is nature's medical prescription

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