Countryside Alliance and FACT in the dock.

[Dave Lumb]

FACT info on the SAA website:

 

http://anglingsites.com/saa/pressreleases/fact1.htm

 

http://anglingsites.com/saa/politicsinfo/s.../structures.htm

[slodger]

Hey thanks Dave.... that's as clear as mud!

 

Only joking, well partly, it isn't really simple enough language for me and many others I'd guess. I get the jist of it though.

[SteveH]

I have been watching this thread with great interest, and now for a response that is devoid of 'politics', personal antipathy, axes to grind, etc. etc.

 

Years ago I used to belong to a couple of angling clubs. As far as I know, they were affiliated to larger organisations. But, and to be totally honest, for a lot of years now I have been a selfish angler, much like the majority of anglers I suspect. Why do I class myself as selfish? Because I have not supported angling in that time. Yes I have suported fishery owners, those with piscatorial rights, tackle dealers, etc. But have I supported angling as a whole, no.

 

Having quietly witnessed this thread, I am now trying to decide my next step. One step may be to join the ACA. BUT, and this is a big but, I want to give FACT a chance, what I have read here gives me some hope that this fledgling organisation may, with the experienced people active within it, become what it has the potential to become. My immediate problem with this, is that some anonymous, proxy, affiliate 'membership' does not suit my needs. I would prefer an individual membership, whether that be in some section set up by FACT so that they have a membership list of individuals who can become a well spring of ideas, complaints, support and debate fodder, or whether that be simply as an associate I don't care. this could be self funding by setting a realistic level of membership fee. But to be honest, without this the best that FACT or any other organisation can do is offer representation by 'guesstimate'.

 

Individual membership at any level would enable the polling of individual needs and wants. Until such time as this might prove possible, I will join one of the organisations that have membership within the FACT 'family'.

 

Thank you all for your contributions, the passionate expressions of belief here have stirred me to offer more concrete support to the sport I love and which has given me so much. One request, I know that debate can be heated, but as adults do we have to let it decend to name calling, sabre rattling and point scoring. That is demeaning to the ones making the contributions that feed this debate, and it is insulting to those of us who watch and form our opinions based on the debate. Insulting? Yes, I hope my intellect, whilst nothing to brag about, is such that I wont have my opinions swayed by schoolyard name calling and dummy spitting.

 

Once again thanks to all involved for the wake up call and for highlighting how much I am risking by simply going out to fish without making a real contribution to the sport as a whole.

 

SteveH

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Dave,

 

You said;

 

"Individual anglers wouldn't join FACT even if they could.

 

The sad truth is that the majority of 'anglers' don't read anything about angling, let alone about angling politics. So they will never hear about FACT. The rest are too tight or short sighted to cough up even a pitance to join an organisation that gives them nothing tangible in return.

 

Please, someone, tell me I'm wrong."

 

 

Yes Dave, you are wrong. Wrong in the sense that you take for granted anglers wouldn't join FACT based upon what? A knowledge that apathy exists? Ask yourself Dave, does the angling political scene actually inspire grass roots appreciation or does it fan the flames of grass roots apathy?

 

The sad truth is that most angling rags don't cover political topics. Remember when I said the internet was the future for angler information? Angler involvement? Now look at what the NAA, SAA for that matter actually DID at harnessing this medium for putting the message across to internet anglers? The SAA did something. Not enough mind you but something. The NAA?

 

You simply have got to stop blaming angler apathy as a valid reason for doing nothing about getting grass roots support unless you begin to take the message to the heart of the matter.

 

Anglers are not interested in angling politics? That must be why the political threads soar upwards in numbers reading them then? They are by far the most popular threads.

 

Anglers are far from "tight" as you colourfully describe them. Quite the opposite in my experience when something comes along that they genuinely care about.

 

But if political angling continues to disregard grass roots angling in the manner you clearly highlight as being responsible for grass roots being politically brushed off, what chance is there for political efforts aimed at gaining grass root support?

 

No Dave. Your outlook will keep angling politics within their "ivory towers" (not my quote by the way) whilst the grass roots majority remain politically ignorant way below.

 

Old attitudes serve masters of failure.

 

A quote from me now Dave to spurn you and others in angling politics on;

 

"There is a vast army of support out there, realise its there, then ride like the wind towards it"

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Peter Waller]

Dave Lumb:

FACT info on the SAA website:

 

http://anglingsites.com/saa/pressreleases/fact1.htm

 

http://anglingsites.com/saa/politicsinfo/s.../structures.htm

Thanks Dave, even the sceptics amongst us should be able to cope with that!

[slodger]

'Ask yourself Dave, does the angling political scene actually inspire grass roots appreciation or does it fan the flames of grass roots apathy?'

 

Not wishing to enter another debate, however I make Lee spot on there!

[Peter Waller]

That makes two of us! Hey, what am I saying!!

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Steve,

 

Good post.

 

If you want to support one of the orgs within FACT in an "interim" period of FACT actually starting to talk about individual membership around the top table, might I suggest SAA membership?

 

This will surprise Alan as I've had my spats with SAA leaders in the past but SAA membership DOES bring with it the facility for FULL and ACTIVE membership. Living in Doncaster you are not that far away from attending monthly meetings held in Leicestershire (are they still?) where you would be openly encouraged to contribute in the meetings debates, but also actively encouraged towards possible involvement as a helping hand. SAA guys are well informed who by and large reside within a modernistic approach to angling's future. Mike Heylin is a good egg who when born nearly a centaury ago, came out not as a human being, but an 8lb angling politician!

 

If you do decide to join SAA Steve and attend your first meeting, wait for a quiet moment and shout at the top of your voice;

 

SELF FUNDING FOR ANGLING!!!

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Peter Waller]

trent.barbeler:

I've had my spats with SAA leaders in the past Regards,Lee.

Now, there's a surprise!! Oh, had better put a couple of in there !!

[Dave Lumb]

"Yes Dave, you are wrong. Wrong in the sense that you take for granted anglers wouldn't join FACT based upon what? "

 

Based on the fact they don't join anything that doesn't give them something back for their money - preferably some fishing.