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Bye bye Scottish West Highland sea-trout


Sandison

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'Very interesting but what is the relevance? or am I missing something'

 

I think I must have missed it too Dave.

 

My view of sharks is that anywhere in the world they are demonised beyond belief. To suggest that makos are on the loose off the West Coast, and use that as a way of pointing at yet another failing of the fish farms does precisely that... demonise them that is. Porbeagles are not uncommon, they are not as a rule open ocean sharks, are commonly found inshore, at certain time of the year are found in large numbers and predate on free swimming shoals not farmed fish. Makos ? ... doubt it.

 

[ 09. June 2005, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: argyll ]

'I've got a mind like a steel wassitsname'

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'Can' the childish semantics. This is 'put your money where you mouth is' time.

 

The points raised in this thread re pike are important.

 

Together, we could address the issue and, perhaps, produce an account of the why's, wherefore's and the if's and the but's.

 

I would be happy to be involved in, a) reasoned debate, b)serious research, c)consideration of that which we may or may not uncover.

 

My start point is: I value and appreciate the species [pike]. I would defend their right to exist as vigorously as I would defend the integrity of salmon, dace, bream, chubb and wild brown trout.

 

I am not interested in 'point-scoring'.

 

Therefore, I will look at the question, if indeed it is a valaid question, of why/how pike appear in Scottish waters to the north of, where? let's begin with, say, Dalwhinnie?

 

I will speak to 'ancients', and ask the readers of the newspaper columns I write for to help.

 

Also the Marine Lab at Faskally, Pitlochry for their views, lairds, anyone and everyone else I can think of.

 

So, if you want to be involved, cut the crap and do something positive.

 

Argyll/Sportsman, what about you both beginning, with an examination of the writings of Charles St John, Osgood Mackenzie, Tom Tod Stoddart, et el., to see if they talked about pike in the rivers and lochs that they fished during the 19th century?

 

Why, for instance, are there pike in Lewis lochs? Were they introduced? Might it have any relationship to the, then, vogue for educating Highland lairds in English schools, to supress the Gaeilic 'threat'?

 

Could it have anything to do with the fact that pike was a much-coveted food, enjoyed only by the wealthy during the Middle Ages?

 

It is not sufficient to respond by saying "the evidence is anecdotal at best".

 

I have no time for such nonsense - I hear too much of it already from politicans. I expect better from fellow anlgers.

 

Now, you lot, either put up or shut up. I am prepared to work on this, seriously, and, I believe that we could, maybe, produce something of value.

 

Will you join me in this research?

 

Bruce

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Start with thorntons tour of the northern highlands of britain, and scotland, published ,I believe sometime in the late 1700s or early 1800s. Unfortunately my copy has gone missing over the years. He tells the story of a fourty pound pike he caught in loch alvich(alva) beside Avimore. The book is facinating and if anyone here has any idea who got my copy please help !!!!

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Cut what crap Mr Sandison. I'm not the one who said that all the pike in the specified lochs were placed there by anglers, and I'm not the one who stated that my "proof" was "some people told me so, over 20 years ago"

If you are so interested in serious research may I suggest you do some before going to print in a national newspaper.

As for having "no time for such nonsense" when someone tells you a story, and you later rely on that story as evidence, then that evidence is, by definition, anecdotal. Thats what it means.

I am not the one who made sweeping (and possibly) innaccurate statements in the national press and as such do not feel that it behoves me to put up or shut up, I rather thought that was your job

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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Sportsman

 

"..will you join me in this research?"

 

So I take it that that's a no?

 

You seem to enjoy putting words into peoples mouths.

I am now intrigued enough to do my own research. Given your attitude I doubt that I would want to join you in a cup of tea.

You had a disagreement with another poster earlier in this thread which culminated in threats from you and a handsome apology from him.

I utter no threats and expect no apology but an admission that you just might have overstated the case based on flimsy evidence might not have been too much to expect.

Please don't let me talk you out of conducting your own research and making me look foolish.

posted 07 June, 2005 01:05 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kreid

 

We live on the north coast of Sutherland. Thus I consider northern lochs to be, essentially, the lochs of Caithness, Sutherland, Orkney and Shetland.

 

Oh, and can we leave the goalposts where they were

Dave

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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Sportsman:

Sportsman

 

Given your attitude I doubt that I would want to join you in a cup of tea.

But why?

It's a discussion, a debate, an exchange of views.

It's not as though you are at war with each other.

Do you not drink tea with anyone you disagree with?

 

I found/find it sad that the threat alledgedly made by Sandison, was made but if he felt it was necessary, then who am I to argue. I still found it sad.

 

Please bear in mind we are all fishermen/anglers and are obviously passionate about our sport, so please try not get so heated and aggressive.

Life's to short guys!!

 

Colin

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How do species arrive in any water?

 

Especially isolated bodies of water that do not share a flood plain, or are not connected by streams etc.

 

 

It was hoped that such 'negative islands' could be used to explore natural selection, much like Darwin's study of the birdlife in the Galapagos Islands.

 

But evolutionary scientists were disappointed to find that wherever they looked, although lakes are isolated, their populations are not, with evidence of recent 'gene swapping' occuring between 'isolated' populations.

 

There are few bodies of water that can support fish life that don't (I don't know of any that have existed for any length of time, or where fish haven't deliberately been removed).

 

Faced with fish's problem of colonising islands of water, it seems that nature has devised ways to accomplish it, without the need for man.

 

What is evident is that there is constant attempts at colonisation, which are usually rebuffed because of the chemical conditions of the water, the presence of predators and diseases, the absence of food etc etc.,

 

But within any region, under natural conditions, it seems to be the case that if species are able to survive and multiply in a particular region, they are usually represented in any body of water where conditions are suitable.

 

So, it is no surprise then, that when environmental conditions change, so does the fauna of bodies of water, as some marginal species decline, and other species, previously unable to successfully colonise, now do so.

 

Water quality, global warming etc.

 

It seems that when a body of water is ready to accept a new species, it will usually turn up there sooner or later, perfectly naturally, without need for the interference of man (though perhaps sometimes man can help to move things along a bit!).

 

Mechanisms by which fish gene-swap or colonise?

 

Sticky eggs on waterfowl, waterspouts, still living prey dropped by raptors, and who knows what else?

 

But one thing is for sure, if those lochs had become ready to accept a successful colonisation by pike, sooner or later they would get there, whether introduced by man or by a more natural route.

 

If that wasn't so, we'd have lakes full of all kinds of unique and wonderfully weird fish and other lakes that might have existed for thousands of years with no fish present, even though other lakes in the region might be populated.

 

Tight Lines - leon

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

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argyll:

...Makos ? ... doubt it.

Why? According to fishbase makos can be found between latitudes 64°N - 50°S, and longitudes 180°W - 180°E with a distribution of Western Atlantic: Gulf of Maine to southern Brazil, including the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean. Eastern Atlantic: Norway to South Africa, including the Mediterranean. Indo-Pacific: East Africa to Hawaii, north to Primorskiy Kray (Russian Federation), south to Australia and New Zealand. Eastern Pacific: south of Aleutian Islands and from southern California, USA to Chile. So I guess that includes just about anywhere down the east coast of the UK, makybe even the west coast too.

 

[ 10. June 2005, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: corydoras ]

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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