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[Newt]

fenboy:

Let's look at the facts. The scientists - the seismologists - knew of the huge underwater earthquake when it happened. They knew the effect it would have. But rather than warn the world, they were too busy getting excited by their dramatic graphs. I heard yesterday the rather feeble excuse that they didn't know who to report it to.

Let us indeed look at the facts (and the Quake thread in the sea angling section is full of them).

 

- you, fenboy, can have email of any quake over fairly minor strength sent to you within an hour of the happening. However, you'd have to deal with MrMatthew's "American arrogance" since the USGS (U.S. Geological Survey), National Earthquake Information Center does the notifications.

 

- all Pacific nations can participate in a tsunami early warning network (oops, we started the thing in '49, went international with it in '65, and NOAA administers it now so more Americans to deal with). India and Sri Lanka have chosen not to participate.

 

Note to MrMatthew - "came from (at least) thrity years of American arrogance and fiddling in the affairs of other countries and peoples for their own interests."

 

Damn boy, who do you think we learned from? I'll give you a hint; it's an English speaking country and not far from France.

 

[ 28. December 2004, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: Newt ]

[Alan Hammond]

I may be new to this forum but I am not new to either angling or life. So for what it is worth I would like to air a few views on some of the comments above.

 

The reason that a lot of attention is paid to the loss of a few Brits as opposed to tens of thousands of locals is quite simple. Twelve to twenty is an easy number to comprehend and cope with. Twenty thousand just overwhelms the senses and lives just become statistics. For proof look at the numbers of dead in the battles of the Great war and the Second war. To say nothing of the millions of civilian dead. I have no doubt that France and Germany and several other nations who have lost a few people in this disaster are reacting in the same way by prioritising their own loss in their media reports. It is the only way to comprehend the true disaster of what has happened.

 

If it was us Brits you Americans learnt from Newt then I am afraid that you did not learn very well. We got kicked out of Afghanistan over a hundred years ago when we ruled a quarter of the world and decided then it was best to leave these people alone to sort out their own destiny. The same happened in Iraq and Iran to say nothing of several other countries.

 

Just in case anybody gets the wrong ideas of my beliefs, I have been a firm believer for a long time that natural disasters apart all of the evil comitted in this world can be traced back to one of three sources: Priests Politicians or Lawyers and it is amazing how often all three are found to be at the same trough.

[Colin Brett]

Sadly nothing within governments will change much. Arrogance reigns throughout the world.

 

I noticed on one news bulletin yesterday [CNN I believe] Indonesian Oil industry was unaffected by the disaster. I bet they weren't talking about the people who work in it, just that the oil is still flowing.

 

Wdo governments throw money at defence and war so readily and not help their own people? it even happens in the US and here.

 

Colin

[Russell Fitzpatrick]

Colin Brett:

 

 

Wdo governments throw money at defence and war so readily and not help their own people? it even happens in the US and here.

 

Colin

why?war genrates money,in iraqs case even more so,why-oil,why you think they ahvent gone over to korea-you cant have wmd's well invade you....only WE(the us) can have wmd's...just in case you attack us...lol

[Peter Waller]

Alan, I would add multi nationals and fiscal greed to your list. A good posting Alan.

 

9/11 was a man-made distaster. This earthquake is naturel. The result is the same. Our sympathy with the peoples involved should be the same.

 

Was 9/11 deserved? Ofcourse not, but many folk resent the economical influence/control of the US and UK. The Twin Towers was not just an American Institution.

 

The stock market results will show how the world feels. The comment about the Indonesian oil-fields is pretty apt.

[Vagabond]

Newt:

- you, fenboy, can have email of any quake over fairly minor strength sent to you within an hour of the happening. - all Pacific nations can participate in a tsunami early warning network India and Sri Lanka have chosen not to participate.

Chevin in Western Australia received just such a warning.

 

I find it incredible that some nations do not participate in the tsunami warning system.

 

Admittedly the Indian Ocean is less likely to suffer a tsunami than the Pacific, which may have given rise to complacency in governments.

 

However, as recent events have shown, big earthquakes/landslips can occur wherever two or more crustal plates are moving relative to each other, (eg USA west coast) or there is latent volcanic activity (eg La Palma)

 

One would hope this has acted as a wake-up call to all governments, but I am not holding my breath.

 

Having said that, the nature of the area means that even if governments had warning, getting that warning to small communities in time is another matter. In Indonesia, Thailand, the Andaman Islands and Nicobar Islands for example, warning and tsunami would probably have arrived simultaneously.

 

In the Maldives, even if warned, what could people do? No high ground to retreat to, and only a slim chance of getting a boat into water deep enough to ride the tsunami out. (in deep water the wave is not very high - the height builds as it reaches shallow water)

 

However, if more lives might have been saved in India and Sri Lanka if due warning had been given - then I hope the survivors will be putting a few questions to their governments.

[Newt]

MrMatthew:

Anyways lets just agree to disagree.

Shoot - that would take half the fun out of life .. but in this ONE instance and since you insist.

 

Alan H - welcome to the forum.

 

I don't think that any of us who are still posting to this thread are new to life. Disasters will happen and any sane person whose been alive for very many years will have developed his/her own ways of coping with news of them.

[Dick Dastardly]

Hi Alan,welcome to AN and an interesting first post.

 

Newt you are totally right the US did learn how to stick its nose into other countries affairs from us.Britain and its old "Empire building" has a lot to answer for.Shame the US hasnt learnt from the mistakes UK made.

 

But then again lets be honest it aint the people of the US or was it the people of the UK.It was the control freak politicians.When are us normall people going to stand up and remind these power crazed idiots that WE employ them to do a job ie run our countries,WE are the boss? cause they seem to have lost sight of this whichever side of the Atlantic they are on.

 

The vast loss of life? a news report a few minutes ago put it at just under 60,000,too much as allready said by some one to comprehend.What should we do to help?sorry but like Newt years of disasters both manmade and natural have left me some what de-sensitised, the world carries on and next month let alone next year most of us in the West will have forgotten all about it.Sad but true.

 

As for the survivors,I wouldnt mind betting that the ones with their heads screwed on will come out of it a lot better off than they were before.

 

A terrible thing but human nature makes most of us more interested in whats happening in our own backyard than all those miles away.

 

An amazing demonstration of mother natures power though.Strange and some what callous sounding but some thing I would have liked to have witnessed first hand.

[Dick Dastardly]

[jocktheberr]

As a new guy, may I say hello and wish you all a happy festive season and a good New Year.

Here's a gristly, manly, outdoor poem for an angler to chew on: "The Heron" by Vernon Watkins. I'm recommending it but I don't have a copy, nor can I find it on The Web. If anybody looks for it and finds it I'd appreciate knowing where.