Petition to keep the close season on rivers

[arbocop]

as they have allways been quick enough to check my rod and boat licence when they come across me in the season [and i am very pleased that they do ] so why they have this lets pretend i cant see them mentality in the close is beyond me,they could surley use it as a cash cow for revenue if they had a crackdown or prehaps that is there cunning plan .

 

 

I think that the registration of boats does make it somewhat easier to get a prosecution - not saying it's right. It's akin to having a bicycle and going through red lights and doing it on a motorcycle with a regsistration plate. OK bad analogy, but you get what I mean.

 

Steve Burke said 'Additionally on rivers the fishing rights on adjacent stretches, or even opposite banks, may be owned by a multitude of different people/organisations, and what one does will effect his neighbour. It's therefore impractical to have different closed seasons imposed by different owners. Thus there's an argument for a national closed season with fixed dates on our rivers'.

 

I completely agree. This is why I would go further and suggest that it should also be a close season for canals. I won't bang drums for it or anything, it's just my view. However, in discussing the season, I think we can be too specific. It's true that there are fat spawn laden tench in early season, and also carp, but for many dace the close season may be too late even though many may only just be getting ready. Barbel and chub won't be getting too excited yet but chub may spawn more than once. The season is a 'best fit' and wouldn't work on a roling basis as it would still be wrong for codler areas compared with warmer ones. We could use statistics and have mass surveys, but how would we know that a survey would find the results conclusive? Bad spawning years, late springs, early Autumn all have an effect. It would take years of surveys of fisheries that were open and closed to get anywhere near a result. It's a close season that we've had for years. In order to remove it we would need to convince all anglers that it is a worthwhile operation for well considered reasons. Science and statistics would have to be used.

 

Anyway, as I said these are my views and I am prepapred to discuss them and be proven wrong. However, I am somewhat disappointed by some of the arguments being put forward, 'may flay', etc. Remember that we are all Anglers. This sort of thing doesn't help us as a sport and would certainly go against us if we were to be subjected to an 'anti' lobby. Remember this is a public website - we can be viewed by anyone who Googles 'close season'.

[Vagabond]

I see nobody fishing any local rivers in the open season, let alone the closed season!

 

Honestly, I can count on one hand the number of river anglers I've seen in the last 12 months.

 

My experience also. Its good from a shortsighted selfish viewpoint, but sooner or later my clubs will wonder why they are paying out large sums in rent just so I can have a river to myself !

 

Make the most of it, Anders

[old buzzer]

The petition is gaining pace but I'm sad to see that as always some have added stupid names trying to spoil the good work of others.

[Anderoo]

My experience also. Its good from a shortsighted selfish viewpoint, but sooner or later my clubs will wonder why they are paying out large sums in rent just so I can have a river to myself !

 

Make the most of it, Anders

 

Yes, I know. I started a topic on that very subject a couple of years ago, it does worry me. At the moment it's great, but it could turn very bad very quickly.

[lutra]

Whilst on the subject of close seasons.............game fishing. I can quite honestly say that I have never heard of anyone questioning the close season for our native game fish.

Nor me, but maybe that is because its been better thought out with its different dates for different waters and species and thats despite it having to cover less species.

[lutra]

Is it not true that since the introduction of a close season in 1878 things have changed a lot?

 

The close season no longer covers still waters.

 

Species in your rivers have changed a lot.

 

The very reason anglers fish and the way we fish has changed.

 

Its time someone had a look at the close season and made it fit for purpose i think.

Edited March 20, 2009 by lutra

[Worms]

Is it not true that since the introduction of a close season in 1878 things have changed a lot?

 

The close season no longer covers still waters.

 

Species in your rivers have changed a lot.

 

The very reason anglers fish and the way we fish has changed.

 

Its time someone had a look at the close season and made it fit for purpose i think.

I don't disagree with any of that but, as I said before and as Arbocop re-iterated, to justify the removal of the close season wholesale would require an extensive study of fish breeding seasons, potential impacts etc. over a long period. This would cost a lot of money. At the moment the money for this kind of research comes largely from us, the licence payers.

 

For the government to remove the national byelaws on river close seasons they would require the results of a comprehensive survey.

 

The EA, Natural England and probably a few other bodies would quite rightly (in my opinion) question the legitimacy of such repeals particularly regarding protected species and SSSI status waters.

 

Over the last few years the British Govt. has taken a lot of flak over protected species issues from the EU. A lot of species that we see as common in the UK are not so common on the continent. As a consequence barbel and grayling, not protected under specific legislation in the UK are covered by international law that we are obliged to respect.

 

So, imagine the scenario, the close season is lifted from rivers, with the exception of rivers with SSSI status. The UK is put under pressure because a (EU) protected fish is being targeted without regard for its breeding place. Bang, EU jumps on UK. Huge fines levied on govt. for not doing enough to conserve protected species. Easy way out for Govt? Make all rivers with EU protected fish SSSI status. This may also preclude fishing for certain (common to us) species!

 

Automatically this will add extra restrictions to fishing above and beyond what we have now, the Govt. will need to recoup some money somehow (I wonder who from?!). And other knock ons will follow. I strongly expect that now most UK rivers are SSSI's anybody wishing to park carp or whatever in their farm pond for fishing will be hit with massive restrictions and potentially massive litigation suits should their fish get washed into the local river which is now a SSSI.

 

This might sound a little far-fetched and Orwelian but believe me a similar example has just hit the UK regarding Great Crested Newts. Huge fines for the Govt. followed by massively increased protection status.

 

The close season for coarse fish may not be perfect or indeed liked by some but believe me it could get a lot worse!

 

At least we can fish 365 days of the year if we want to

[lutra]

I don't disagree with any of that but, as I said before and as Arbocop re-iterated, to justify the removal of the close season wholesale would require an extensive study of fish breeding seasons, potential impacts etc. over a long period. This would cost a lot of money. At the moment the money for this kind of research comes largely from us, the licence payers.

 

For the government to remove the national byelaws on river close seasons they would require the results of a comprehensive survey.

 

The EA, Natural England and probably a few other bodies would quite rightly (in my opinion) question the legitimacy of such repeals particularly regarding protected species and SSSI status waters.

 

Over the last few years the British Govt. has taken a lot of flak over protected species issues from the EU. A lot of species that we see as common in the UK are not so common on the continent. As a consequence barbel and grayling, not protected under specific legislation in the UK are covered by international law that we are obliged to respect.

 

So, imagine the scenario, the close season is lifted from rivers, with the exception of rivers with SSSI status. The UK is put under pressure because a (EU) protected fish is being targeted without regard for its breeding place. Bang, EU jumps on UK. Huge fines levied on govt. for not doing enough to conserve protected species. Easy way out for Govt? Make all rivers with EU protected fish SSSI status. This may also preclude fishing for certain (common to us) species!

 

Automatically this will add extra restrictions to fishing above and beyond what we have now, the Govt. will need to recoup some money somehow (I wonder who from?!). And other knock ons will follow. I strongly expect that now most UK rivers are SSSI's anybody wishing to park carp or whatever in their farm pond for fishing will be hit with massive restrictions and potentially massive litigation suits should their fish get washed into the local river which is now a SSSI.

 

This might sound a little far-fetched and Orwelian but believe me a similar example has just hit the UK regarding Great Crested Newts. Huge fines for the Govt. followed by massively increased protection status.

 

The close season for coarse fish may not be perfect or indeed liked by some but believe me it could get a lot worse!

 

At least we can fish 365 days of the year if we want to

Sounds about right, bureaucracy gone t*ts up.

 

I think the EU would have a case for fining us now as barbel don't have a close season that covers their spawning time and are fished heavily for in low water/oxygen times. If barbel are protected like you say it makes me wonder how they can let them be put in still waters.

 

I would be very concerned and pay someone to sort it out if it was me.

 

I wonder how you get a well payed job like that.

[Worms]

Sounds about right, bureaucracy gone t*ts up.

 

I think the EU would have a case for fining us now as barbel don't have a close season that covers their spawning time and are fished heavily for in low water/oxygen times. If barbel are protected like you say it makes me wonder how they can let them be put in still waters.

 

I would be very concerned and pay someone to sort it out if it was me.

 

I wonder how you get a well payed job like that.

My best guess is that it is because we have a comprehensive (on paper) close season for coarse fish in natural habitats!

 

I believe that in due course such surveys will become necessary. Currently, the rivers are managed (some better than others) with money supplied by anglers. Some private stretches are managed better because day ticket money supplies more cash. The better the water the more it is fished the more money goes into it.....etc.

 

We have the problem in the UK with alien species such as Signal crayfish, chinese mitten crabs etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see the EU make us take steps to increase protection on our native white-clawed crayfish. This could have negative impacts on angling, then again it may have a positive impact, it all depends on result/cost.

 

We also have the eel management plan to present by summer 2009, more potential restrictions!

 

As for doing the surveys, well, there is no shortage of qualified biologists out there to do the work but, the cost would be astronomical and it would take years. Obviously during the surveys the fishing would be heavily disrupted with netting and electro-fishing. My guess is that you would be looking at a minimum ten year survey period to get even close to a sensible answer. So, get yourself off to university to do an aquatic biology degree, then a couple of years experience then the job's a good'un. You can earn wads of cash wading around in rivers for months on end and even longer sat in front of a computer analysing data and then awful meetings where nothing gets decided (except the date of the next meeting) then you come up with some figures that may or may not mean anything. By which time all of that wading around has altered the character of the river substrate and fish 'A' no longer breeds there so you have to start all over again!!!

 

No, keep mum and live with the close season. After all, as long as you are not 'deliberately' fishing for coarse fish, most rivers can be fished with natural baits with a few tackle restrictions for most of the year. I can leger worms and maggots for 363 days of the year on several rivers if I want to

[gozzer]

Thanks Worms for putting so eloquently, what I have struggled to find a way of posting.

 

There seems to be many who think that just saying, "right, we will do away with the closed season on rivers", and it just happening. As you have posted, there is a lot more to it than that.

 

For those who think we could synchronize the closed season to suit each species in each river.

Can you tell me when each species spawned last year, and the year before?

Better still, tell me when they are going to spawn next year.

There are too many variables to predict in advance, when it's going to happen.

 

The only answer I could see to that, would be a greatly extended closed season to cover the whole of the country. (That would go down well....not!).

 

As it's been said, things could be a whole lot worse. (Better the devil you know, and all that).

 

John.