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Sutton Warrior

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I think I do prefer the very tight crop that Janet did but it wouldnt really be used like that due to the high noise level it shows. Maybe some noisewhere photo shopping could do something with it but yea, a very tight crop really shows the imperfections in any shot.

 

Mick.

 

 

Tight heavy cropping does create problems, but can be an inspiration on how to take a similar shot next time? The pictures created by this heavy cropping by me are generally for my own use and pleasure. I find the 800ppi size does not show noise to much on my screen? In fact, I can accept a certain amount of noise as pare for the course, in the same way as 'grain on film', or 'frying eggs' back ground noise on a well produced vinyl record, anyone remember them . . . 12" diameter flat, black discs with a quarter inch hole in the middle . . . :P The debate will be a long time dying, as will the advantages/disadvantage of film v digital.

 

In the mean time enjoy the fun, :lol:

 

SW

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Now I'm going to sound really dim here, but what exactly is "noise" in relation to photography?

 

By the way Mick, it wasn't me who cropped the photo - it was SW who did it at my suggestion and the more I look at it, the more I like it!

 

I don't have that photographers "eye" yet - I'm one of those intensely annoying people who knows what she likes, but can't quite figure out why. I'm hoping that will come with time!

 

Janet

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I personally find it very hard to visualise what a cropped image will look like until I do it and see it 'in the flesh'. I'm sure it comes with practice but I think the grass spikes example illustrates just how much different a bit (lot) of cropping can alter the final picture. All I need to do is find some more time to look through the hundreds (thousands ?) of pictures I now have on my pc and have a play with some of them.

 

Rob.

 

Roy, I have trouble visualising crops as well, so, when I am viewing pictures for the fist time via windows in the sessions folder, click on the thumb nail, fills the screen, roll the mouse wheel and you can zoom in on the picture. Move it around with the side and bottom bars. Its not as good as the crop/zoom in PhotoShop, but gives me my first incling of, can I save a snapshot, or lightly crop to produce better framing! I keep a pad beside me and make quick notes of frame number and a point to zoom onto in PhotoShop.

 

SW

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Now I'm going to sound really dim here, but what exactly is "noise" in relation to photography?

 

By the way Mick, it wasn't me who cropped the photo - it was SW who did it at my suggestion and the more I look at it, the more I like it!

 

I don't have that photographers "eye" yet - I'm one of those intensely annoying people who knows what she likes, but can't quite figure out why. I'm hoping that will come with time!

 

Janet

 

My simplistic understanding Janet, digital noise is the equivalent of film grain, created by fast films. Seen commonly at hi ISO (400 and up wards on some cameras) settings on digital cameras, as you zoom in, and by copping and blowing up the crop, even well controlled grain is bound to be come visible as any picture or part of said picture is blown up.

 

At a personal level, I dont worry about it, it does not seem to show badly on my screen. I have no idea what type of screen Mick uses, but one suspects the 25" megabucks pro screens show it. Drag and drop the daisy pic., from here into a windows file, then zoom in, you will see all sorts of nastiness, I've just checked the 300dpi original, that started life at 200 ISO, as do a lot of my pictures, allows for a lot of light changes.

 

Printing out, may throw up some issues on heavily cropped and then blown up pictures. However, what is on this thread is purely for the pleasure, inspiration and fuel for discussion of those viewing.

 

Perhaps some one might like to explain in more correct terms, 'picture grain' . . . ?

 

SW

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Ah! It all becomes clear now :wallbash:

 

Film = grain, digital = noise? One and the same thing, but in different formats? I must say that I can't see it in your photo's, but I'm only using a bog standard screen.

 

I'm assuming that instead of cropping a larger picture, I'll get better results by trying to get closer to the subject. Would that be right?

 

Janet

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Ah! It all becomes clear now :wallbash:

 

Film = grain, digital = noise? One and the same thing, but in different formats? I must say that I can't see it in your photo's, but I'm only using a bog standard screen.

 

I'm assuming that instead of cropping a larger picture, I'll get better results by trying to get closer to the subject. Would that be right?

 

Janet

 

Spot on Janet as I see it, thats the advise and the action one tries to work on, but not always possible. As low an ISO as practical, and as close as possible.

 

SW

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Spot on Janet as I see it, thats the advise and the action one tries to work on, but not always possible. As low an ISO as practical, and as close as possible.

 

SW

 

And in theory at least, as high a megapixel camera as possible, although sensor size then starts coming into play as well (I believe).

 

The above is one of the reasons I'm looking at 'upgrading' my DSLR, currently 6MP, new one I'm looking at is 12MP. I will also need to consider then getting an external hard drive to backup all my pictures, and then thin out what I store on the PC itself.

 

Rob.

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I have no idea what type of screen Mick uses, but one suspects the 25" megabucks pro screens show it.

 

SW

 

Lol, I wish. You're forgetting that I'm just your average blue collar truck drivin fella. I may live in a flash suburb but have one of the crappiest homes (but I love it).

 

 

However, what is on this thread is purely for the pleasure, inspiration and fuel for discussion of those viewing.

 

SW

 

I realise this. I'm just saying if you start cropping really close you're going to get noise. Noise is ok with eveyone to a point but its not all that attractive in most pics. Some, it's an improvement and is actually sought out but most of the time its something you want to steer clear of.

 

Mick.

 

ps, I like the crop, just not the noise.

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Cliff (SW) I know you use Elements 7 (me to). What method do you use when cropping?

 

I click on a thumbnail to open up the photo, then click image, then click crop. You then are able to drag the crop borders any way you want then when happy click the tick. This then gives you the photo at full size, if you are not happy with it click edit and then click undo crop. Of course you can carry out this procedure as often as you like until you are happy with the crop and the noise.

 

I guess you know all this but as I had time to spare I thought I would do it anyway. :rolleyes:

Del.

Founder Member OFC.

 

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Cliff (SW) I know you use Elements 7 (me to). What method do you use when cropping?

 

I click on a thumbnail to open up the photo, then click image, then click crop. You then are able to drag the crop borders any way you want then when happy click the tick. This then gives you the photo at full size, if you are not happy with it click edit and then click undo crop. Of course you can carry out this procedure as often as you like until you are happy with the crop and the noise.

 

I guess you know all this but as I had time to spare I thought I would do it anyway. :rolleyes:

 

Pretty well DelJ, although I use the crop tool, and drag the box to the approximate size, then move the sides independently and move the box around in its entirety by click, hold and drag the crossed circle in the centre. The rest is as you describe.

 

A point I had not appreciated until the past couple of weeks, I do any sharpening after size reduction to 800ppi, view actual pixels, I also have taken to using the 'sharpen facility' rather than 'unsharp'. Gives me a much better job and appreciation of the final picture to view. Personal preference maybe?

 

SW

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