Griff Rhys Jones angers anglers with command to disturb fishermen

[lutra]

well i was going to watch the programme until i heard what Grff had said so decided not to watch it and i hope other anlgers do the same and decide not to. bloody BBC

Sorry, curiosity got the better of me.

[andy_youngs]

I've just watched the first episode and there was nothing particularly inflammatory or insensitive in it, but then GRJ was travelling down a Scottish River, which as we know has open access for canoeists. I suspect issues of confrontation between anglers and canoeists will be addressed later in the series, when he deals with English Rivers.

 

I can't say I'm in the least surprised that this debate has kicked off though. I also think it's a debate that we desparately need to have. JV44 is quite right when he suggests that somebody is going to get hurt if it isn't sorted out.

 

As for who's going to have to move, I suggest it's got to be the anglers. I just think it's unreasonable for Mark Lloyd to say people can't canoe over a spawning riffle in case they damage fish spawn. The Environment Agency have commissioned several reports which have concluded that canoeing on a river does not impact on fish stocks. I suppose if it really is that sensitive then it's easy enough to put a portage point in, but then it's going to be pretty hard to justify canoeists having to portage around a riffle when anglers are fishing around them - we all know fish often spawn well into June / July / August when anglers are actively trying to hoik them out of the river on hook and line. It's also worth bearing in mind that most riffles are designed with a deep channel to enable access by weed cutting boats etc.

 

As for the point that anglers pay for rivers to be maintained through the rod license fee, well fine, allow canoeists to paddle down the 110,000 odd miles of waterway which are currently closed off to them, and charge them accordingly. The EA should be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect. Just think of all those extra spawning riffles you could finance with the proceeds ....

 

The bottom line is that we all live on an overcrowded island, and we've got to learn to get along. Closing so much of waterways down to canoeists is just a recipe for further conflict.

[Dick Dastardly]

As always there is good and bad on both sides but I'm afraid that most of what Ive seen (yet alone what Ive heard/read) points to more bad on our side as anglers.

 

I'm sorry that Ive had to say that but its a simple point of view based on what Ive witnessed over the years.

 

The vast majority of canoeists merely wish to pass by the angler who is simply just there along their journey.They don't set out to cause the angler any problems. (now I say that as jet skiers actually seem to seek out anglers so they can perform in front of them! they seem to crave an audience to show off in front of).

 

Most move over as far away as they can to pass you and most also lift their paddles and don't use them till they are past you.Most don't even talk! they simply nod an acknowledgement or smile. Yes I know we are often fishing that far side but they are not to know this and lets be honest does the momentary passage of their vessel really cause that much disturbance to the fish? more to the anglers auto created world of peace really.No different to the person walking the far bank or the walker stood on the bridge etc.

 

We are the selfish ones here and as Dapper 64 demonstrates in his first post (not going to crucify him as he seems to have agreed that he may not have been entirely justified) the first to act in a selfish and aggressive way.

 

As for the business of disturbing spawning beds (remember the recent incident with the barbel guys?) well I ask you! Another example of certain specialist anglers losing the plot and deifying their chosen species me thinks.

 

In fact my only downer on paddlers really is their constant whining about "access for all" does my head in! As anglers we have to accept that some places we can fish and other places we cant so why do they think they have a God given right to go wherever they want? But the same applies to all people.

 

I think that if its deemed sensible/necessary then canoeists shouldn't be allowed through SSI's at certain delicate times but then neither should anyone if there prescence is going to have an affect!

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if GRJ's outburst had been made as a result of encounters with poorly attitude anglers..............but wouldn't it just be nice and surely far more productive if people from either side in this situation could make more positive comments when given such a chance! A few words on how anglers care for the rivers and the fish and how not to cause them any inconvenience as a "fellow river user" would have been a lot more constructive? same when the TV anglers have canoes come through whilst filming? Surely we should all be on the same side re water quality and the likes?

 

Or am I just turning into a wet,liberal old hippy?

[Steve Walker]

Does it spoil the fishing? It depends.

 

I fish this little river for small brown trout on the dry fly. If you show yourself, you may as well go and fish somewhere else. So if I've waded into position here with rising fish under the trees, and a couple of canoes come through, that's probably the fishing ruined for the evening.

 

 

If it's here, no, sharing is no hardship:

 

 

I have some sympathy for the idea that we have to compromise with canoeists. I have no sympathy for the idea that paddlers should always have priority and anglers can go hang, which is what a free right of access would amount to.

[Anderoo]

It's not even comparing like with like. In theory, an angler could possibly gain access to nearly all the riverside in England, after buying thousands of club books and hundreds of syndicate tickets, after being on some waiting lists a very long time and shelling out an absolute mountain of cash every year. We're not allowed to go where we like just because we fish

 

The idea that canoeists should have the right to go anywhere just sounds silly to me.

[andy_youngs]

Anderoo, the only way that canoeists are going to get complete access to all waterways is if it gets enshrined in statute law, as it has been in Scotland.

 

To my mind the best way for anglers to avoid such an eventuality is if they proactively open up rivers for canoeing now. If you've got a stretch of river like Steve Walkers local river, ie one that is predominently a fly fishing water, then offer to open it up for canoe access outside of the main hatches so it remains off limits to canoeists in May / June. If it's predominently a barbel river then offer to open it up outside of the period 16 June - 31 July when the barbel fishermen will be out in force.

 

As long as people understand the reason for such rules, then the overwhelming majority of anglers and canoeists would respect them and conflict would be avoided.

 

The best way ensuring that a 'right to roam' gets enacted is to do nothing and allow the present impasse to continue.

[Anderoo]

Well I know what I'll be doing if such a law gets passed - getting a cheap canoe off ebay and never buying a club book again

[Steve Walker]

To my mind the best way for anglers to avoid such an eventuality is if they proactively open up rivers for canoeing now. If you've got a stretch of river like Steve Walkers local river, ie one that is predominently a fly fishing water, then offer to open it up for canoe access outside of the main hatches so it remains off limits to canoeists in May / June. If it's predominently a barbel river then offer to open it up outside of the period 16 June - 31 July when the barbel fishermen will be out in force.

 

Should the canoeists not be seeing if they can negotiate that out of season access for 3/12 of what the anglers pay to fish it the rest of the year?

 

(Actually, my little river is mixed fishing and is fished all year round)

[Andy Macfarlane]

As always there is good and bad on both sides but I'm afraid that most of what Ive seen (yet alone what Ive heard/read) points to more bad on our side as anglers.

 

I'm sorry that Ive had to say that but its a simple point of view based on what Ive witnessed over the years.

 

The vast majority of canoeists merely wish to pass by the angler who is simply just there along their journey.They don't set out to cause the angler any problems. (now I say that as jet skiers actually seem to seek out anglers so they can perform in front of them! they seem to crave an audience to show off in front of).

 

Most move over as far away as they can to pass you and most also lift their paddles and don't use them till they are past you.Most don't even talk! they simply nod an acknowledgement or smile.

 

You're not wrong but GRJ actively suggested pestering anglers and on waterways where he has no right of access. That's not the same thing. He's actively looking for canoeists to ruin anglers sport by making a din etc.

That's not in anyway the same thing you're describing. He's deliberately asking for negative activity towards anglers. That's the difference here. Nobody in general has a problem with canoeists but GRJ is talking about starting a waterways war.

 

....andy....

[Dick Dastardly]

You're not wrong but GRJ actively suggested pestering anglers and on waterways where he has no right of access. That's not the same thing. He's actively looking for canoeists to ruin anglers sport by making a din etc.

That's not in anyway the same thing you're describing. He's deliberately asking for negative activity towards anglers. That's the difference here. Nobody in general has a problem with canoeists but GRJ is talking about starting a waterways war.

 

....andy....

 

No I totally agree with you Andy.I cant think of anything more negative to angler/paddler relationships.Like I said idiots on both sides.

 

Now imagine if GRJ had mentioned anglers in the positive way I described? Thousands of anglers might of thought "well he might not go fishing and plays around in canoes but he "understands us" so hes ok" and the next time the angler encounters a canoeist (who may have seen GRJ as well so moves over and gives a friendly wave) might veiw the whole thing in a more positive way thus avoiding any grief for either party and not winding himself up! You know what I mean?

 

In general I definately think any (except for those water abusing jet ski creatures from hell) boater disturbs the angler more than the fish!

 

PS This Kaftan and bare feet is really starting to feel quite comfortable!