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The Battle That Changed The World


severus

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Ian FG:

Severus,

 

These forums will never be as good as real conversation will they? Without body language and inflection and emphasis etc.

 

What I meant was the British have a lot of history which is extra enjoyable to read if one happens to be British. We enjoyed a lot of military and naval success in the past (with a few not so glorious chapters). The point I was making about Americans was a sort of compliment, I meant that whenever the British fought the Americans they lost (although we did stop you guys from taking Canada in the 1812 war) :) , this also linked to my picture of the USS Constitution which was so successful at fighting British ships.

That brings up an interesting point, Ian, the importance of gaining differing points of view to see the larger picture. Canadians believe they won the War of 1812 because the invasion of Canada failed, American schoolkids (like me) were taught that because Andrew Jackson defeated the British at New Orleans, we won the war. Never mind the fact that the Treaty of Ghent had already been signed, Baltimore bombarded, or that the White House was torched by Redcoats. As for the USS Constitution, I recall reading that it was essentially bottled up by the Royal Navy for most of that war as the US Navy was heavily outnumbered.

 

I'll bet the Battle of New Orleans wasn't even in your history book, was it Ian?

 

Ken

Be good and you will be lonely.
~ Mark Twain

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Another battle that changed the world - or at least the world's navies - was The Battle of Hampton Roads between the Monitor and the Merrimac. It's worth mentioning if only to point out that wooden naval ships of the line were rendered obsolete overnight after this battle, as they could not slug it out with ironclads. This news must have caused some consternation and astonishment within the Admiralty.

Be good and you will be lonely.
~ Mark Twain

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Alan,

 

Pepys' diary is a great read if ever you have the time.

 

Severus,

 

The USS Constitution may have been bottled up for a lot of the war but the two times it engaged British ships it sank them both, HMS Guerriere and HMS Java. It also captured another British frigate and a sloop.

 

I can't remember the Battle of New Orleans at school, they probably didn't teach that one because we lost :)

 

The Battle of Hampton Roads was certainly a naval turning point as was the launching of HMS Dreadnought in 1906 which instantly made every other battleship in the world obsolete and let's not forget the Japanese sinking of the two British battleships HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales in 1941 by carrier borne aircraft which instantly made ALL battleships obsolete.

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Severus

You have got to remember that the Adniralty had launched HMS Warrior the world's first ocean-going iron-hulled armoured battleship. This was more than a match for either of these vessels (Merrimac or Monitor), so the Admiralty was already aware of this threat and was indeed reacting to the first Ironclad the French battleship Gloire (launched 1859).

Look at www.hmswarrior.org

 

With regard to the sinking of the Repulse and the Prince of Wales we had not learnt our own lessons from The Battle of Tarranto where we immoblised the Italian Fleet with obsolete Swordfish torpedo planes. A lesson the Japanese took on board only to well.

 

<small>[ 20. October 2005, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Tony U ]</small>

Edited by Tony U

Tony

 

After a certain age, if you don't wake up aching in every joint, you are probably dead.

 

 

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Good points, Tony, and thanks for the web link. The Warrior was a powerful ship. I'm not as certain as you how it would fare against a fully armored Monitor, however. Monitors could absorb an incredible amount of solid shot without being severely damaged, although the Keokuk rolled over and sank off Charleston bar after taking nearly 100 point-blank shots in Charleston Harbor during an assault in 1863.

Be good and you will be lonely.
~ Mark Twain

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Severus

If you ever come over the oggin, we will do a trip round her and the Victory, beats fishing for a day but only just.

Tony

Tony

 

After a certain age, if you don't wake up aching in every joint, you are probably dead.

 

 

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severus:

I'll bet the Battle of New Orleans wasn't even in your history book, was it Ian?

We don't need it in our history books - we've got the Lonnie Donegan song! :D

 

[ 20. October 2005, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: DavyR ]

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...and here it is.

 

In 1814 we took a little trip

along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip.

We took a little bacon and we took a little beans

And we caught the bloody British in the town of New Orleans.

 

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.

There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.

We fired once more and they began to runnin' on

down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

We looked down the river and we seen the British come.

And there must have been a hundred of'em beatin' on the drum.

They stepped so high and they made the bugles ring.

We stood by our cotton bales and didn't say a thing.

 

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.

There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.

We fired once more and they began to runnin'

on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise

If we didn't fire our muskets til we looked 'em in the eyes

We held our fire til we seen their faces well.

then we opened up with squirrel guns and really gave 'em..well.

 

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.

There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.

We fired once more and they began to runnin'

on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles

And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.

They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em

on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

We fired our cannon til the barrel melted down.

So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round.

We filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind

and when we touched the powder off, the gator lost his mind.

 

We fired our guns and the British kept a'comin.

There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.

We fired once more and they began to runnin'

on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles

and they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.

they ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em

on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Hup 2, 3, 4. Sound off 3, 4.... Hup 2, 3, 4.

Sound off 3, 4.... Hup 2, 3, 4

 

 

 

Click here to listen to the tune and see the words. http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/battleof.htm

 

[ 20. October 2005, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: argyll ]

'I've got a mind like a steel wassitsname'

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Ian FG:

Alan,

 

Pepys' diary is a great read if ever you have the time.

I read it a few years ago when hospitalised. Some of it is really funny - especially his meetings with certain young ladies. I found his coming to terms with failing eyesight was dealt with perfectly - and lef tme thinking long and hard about whether I would rather lose my hand (which at the time of reading it was a distinct possibility ) or lose my eyesight. I am still ambivalent abou tit, and grateful to have the use of both.

This is a signature, there are many signatures like it but this one is mine

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Severus

If you ever come over the oggin, we will do a trip round her and the Victory, beats fishing for a day but only just.

Tony

 

Sounds like fun to me, Tony. Love to see it someday.

 

Ken

Be good and you will be lonely.
~ Mark Twain

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