Can you identify these fish ?

[Steve Walker]

Either that, or it has suffered an injury which removed the middle portion of the dorsal fin (there is still a rear bit showing)

Best identification would be "Goldfish mongrel"

These particular fish came from France, but commercials here in Britain are increasingly becoming over-run with mongrel brown goldfish/carp/crucian/ hybrids or whatever fish hatcheries can unload on the owners and punters.

 

Nobody (except perhaps me and Gozzer ) seems to care. "Its still a fish innit"

 

I agree with Vagabond, on all points.

 

Seems to me that such a badly deformed fish ought to have ended up inside a pike, in the natural way of things. These things do happen, I used to have a hatchery trout fry with two caudal fins. I doubt it would have survived for long in the hatchery (even if I hadn't dropped it into alcohol) but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have lived even as long as that in the wild.

[Vagabond]

I caught this last week and presumed it was a baby carp

 

Absolutely right, and with a mouth that big, its not gonna stay a baby long!

[gozzer]

Nobody (except perhaps me and Gozzer ) seems to care. "Its still a fish innit"

 

Very true Dave, I do get scarlet vision when the subject is mentioned.

 

I've found the fish I was trying to think of with the distinctive lump and small dorsal fin, and.........it doesn't look much like the fish in the picture.

That is apart from the small dorsal fin and distinctive lump that is.

 

But, if you shut one eye, lean to the left, and stand on one leg, you might, (just might) see a slight similarity, (or not).

 

The fish I saw in my minds eye was a silver barb, this was the best pic I could find.

http://www.thaifishingguide.com/fishtecheq...mon_silver.html

 

It's funny how the mind can play tricks.

 

John.

[medwaygreen]

Either that, or it has suffered an injury which removed the middle portion of the dorsal fin (there is still a rear bit showing)

Best identification would be "Goldfish mongrel"

These particular fish came from France, but commercials here in Britain are increasingly becoming over-run with mongrel brown goldfish/carp/crucian/ hybrids or whatever fish hatcheries can unload on the owners and punters.

 

Nobody (except perhaps me and Gozzer ) seems to care. "Its still a fish innit"

 

Also myself, Mr Vagabond.

Edited May 20, 2008 by medwaygreen

[medwaygreen]

Your fish look much more like crucians - look at the steep angle of the lower jaw.

 

Brown goldfish have much more "carp-like" jaws .

 

Also, compare the large number of small scales on your fish with the fewer, larger scales on Gardon Hunter's.

 

BTW if anyone thinks Gardon Hunter can't spell - Gardon is French for "roach"

 

Yes i understand what you are pointing out there Dave, i have it on very good authority that it is a picture of Brown Goldfish.

The conjecture is therefore in the proving, such a difficult subject.

Edited May 20, 2008 by medwaygreen

[medwaygreen]

Your fish look much more like crucians - look at the steep angle of the lower jaw.

 

Brown goldfish have much more "carp-like" jaws .

 

Also, compare the large number of small scales on your fish with the fewer, larger scales on Gardon Hunter's.

 

BTW if anyone thinks Gardon Hunter can't spell - Gardon is French for "roach"

 

Vagabond Sir,

Enlightenment as well and thank you for that i did not know, just a little point of observation, if that is the case why did Gardon Hunter move to France and start a thread on Carp.

Edited May 20, 2008 by medwaygreen

[The Gardon Hunter]

How good it was to hear from all of you and especially Vagabond. We've used the name 'Gardon Hunter' for a number of years on different sites and he is the first person to recognise that we haven't made a spelling mistake in our name. Yes he is correct, the translation is roach. Good man!!!

 

Anyway, both of the fish I caught are a solid silver colour with no hint of any other colour on the body. Although picture 2 looks a different colour, it was a reflection of the light that gave that colouring. The pectoral and anal fins did have a slight hint of colour though. I caught in the region of 50 of these fish - 40 of the type in the first photo and 10 of photo 2.

 

We questioned the owner of the lake who knows absolutely nothing about course fish although he is an expert on fly fishing. However, the list of fish he was told were in there was pike, mirror carp, roach, tench and he thought there were some bream.

 

So we're still puzzled to their true identity. Gut feeling is that the first photo is a French crucian and the second I couldn't even guess at.

[medwaygreen]

[quote name='The Gardon Hunter' date='May 20 2008, 10:47 AM' post='9552

 

 

So we're still puzzled to their true identity. Gut feeling is that the first photo is a French crucian and the second I couldn't even guess at.

 

Definitely not Crucian french or otherwise, puzzled not. Goldfish.

[Dick Dastardly]

They are not crucians or brown goldfish.They are known in France as Carrusso Carp. Used to buy hundreds each year from the commercial nets men for live baits.

Edited May 20, 2008 by BUDGIE

[Comus]

All, can I start by saying that none of the below is from personal knowledge but I found the subject interesting so did some research. Must have been bitten by something recently!

 

I think that the term Carrusso Carp comes from the Latin term for the fish genus Carassius.This genus includes both the Goldfish as well as the Carp.

 

 

 

Carassius Auratus = Wild Goldfish (In the US considered a nuisance species.) The American article from which the above image was taken states that after a few generations these fish closely resemble the Crucian.

 

Interestingly Priory Fisheries (www.prioryfisheries.co.uk) use the image used above of the 2 fish held above a net as examples of Carassius carassius , Crucians and say that their fish are genetically tested to ensure that they are 'true' crucians and not 'Brown Goldfish' so the species must be so similar that they need DNA testing to distinguish them.

 

 

Comus

Edited May 20, 2008 by Comus