So why are big roach still so few and far between?

[Dick Dastardly]

I know weve disscussed this in a round about way before but Anderoo's recent "what you want to catch" thread has made me think of it again.

 

While the average weights of so many of our species have gone up quite dramaticly over the 45 years or so Ive been fishing the elusive 2lb roasch is still erm er well elusive!

 

Ideas why?

[Vagabond]

Gudgeon weights haven't gone up much either.

 

Nor dace, minnows, ruffe, stone loach, sticklebacks, millers thumbs and brook lampreys.

 

If the genetic potential is just not there, no amount of extra food, living space or other favourable conditions will result in a size increase.

 

Perhaps roach are genetically limited to 1 lb 14 oz

 

....and I just wonder how many 2 lb plus roach are true roach ?

[Guerilla]

I know weve disscussed this in a round about way before but Anderoo's recent "what you want to catch" thread has made me think of it again.

 

While the average weights of so many of our species have gone up quite dramaticly over the 45 years or so Ive been fishing the elusive 2lb roasch is still erm er well elusive!

 

Ideas why?

 

 

It's probably because of the Chub presence around here in the Waveney as dant pointed out previously, which was confirmed by a recent EA survey:

 

UKs best roach river

 

Chub in Abundance

 

The article also suggests cormorants may be to blame!?

Edited October 8, 2009 by Norfolk Rob

[lutra]

If you look at not so warm waters like the river Tay that have product good roach over the years this would suggests to me that they don't benefit from warmer waters like some other species do and may go some way to explaining why they don't seem to have got any bigger with the warmer temps we've been getting in resent years like some species have.

[dapper64]

Cormorants are also named as a culprit in the latest catching the impossible dvd.

[Vagabond]

Cormorants are also named as a culprit in the latest catching the impossible dvd.

 

 

Watched a cormorant struggling to swallow a 1 lb flounder the other day. It failed.

 

I wonder how many 2 lb roach they eat ?

 

Once a roach exceeds a pound and a half, it is probably safe from any predators except mink, otter, osprey, larger pike and wels.

[Rusty]

I know weve disscussed this in a round about way before but Anderoo's recent "what you want to catch" thread has made me think of it again.

 

While the average weights of so many of our species have gone up quite dramaticly over the 45 years or so Ive been fishing the elusive 2lb roasch is still erm er well elusive!

 

Ideas why?

 

Maybe because they're fussy eaters? The baits which caught Roach 45 years ago are probably still the same today, a tiny bit of flake and hemp isn't going to pile on the ounces very quickly. They seem delicate eaters whereas other species woof it down. A theory.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Rusty

[Anderoo]

It's a really good question, and as Vagabond says, applies to other species too. I would add perch to his list, and pike. Trout too? The one thing they appear to have in common is that they are 'cold water' fish. Although chub seem to ruin that theory!

 

The species that have really piled the weight on are more 'warm water' fish like bream, tench, barbel and carp (although not crucian carp?). I don't think it's got that much to do with loads of pellets or boilies being dumped in lakes and rivers, I think it's more to do with higher temperatures, longer growing seasons and the capacity as a species to make the most of it.

 

Just imagine if roach had gone the same way as their close cousin the bream - we'd be trotting for 6lbers now!

 

One of the main reasons I don't think its HNV baits is places like Queenford, Conningbrook, Wingham, really anywhere that produces very high average size fish without (or before) the pellet bombardment.

 

I wonder what Willow lake has going for it that makes the roach there grow so big? Any ideas?

Edited October 9, 2009 by Anderoo

[KAYC]

My personal belief based on my 2lb roach have come from rivers and their tributaries is that many of these once heavily match fished venues i.e the kentish stour have lost the free food that was put in every saturday and sunday as the match fraternity have moved onto carp pits etc, this coincides with the fast growth rates and pot bellied fish now common across the country from these venues.

[wayne baker]

Its a good question. One i have often ponded upon. Unlike a lot of other species that have seemed to increase in there average weights the last decade or two, Due to anglers baits. A roach of a good size, Say even a pound plus is still a good fish.

Rustys theory is interesting and possibly a factor, Being delicate feeders maybe they just haven't progressed on to new style baits as much as other fish. Though i think a true roach just hasn't got the potential to get big, Without any form of hybridisation. Like Vagabond said "how many big roach are true roach?.

I havent had any big roach for a long time round my neck of the woods. The Suffolk stour above Nayland use to be a good area and about twenty years ago i was lucky enoungh to have a run of quality fish on the float, and also when chubbing in the winter with flake. But the roach have all but gone now. The larger ones at least.