Barbed or Barbless. What's your opinion?

[Guest allibee]

lardvader:

I certainly don't try to get it on the bank as fast as I can which I understand is one of the chief reasons for damage?

No, one of the chief reasons of damage with barbless is by it's nature it is not a secure hookhold in the same way a barbed hook is. As the fish turns, so does the barbless in it's mouth. The slightest, and I do mean slightest, amount of slack gives the hook the opportunity to move forward or back and double hook the fish through both lips. Hooklink or whatever breaks and you have a fish that can no longer survive.

On the other hand this freedom to move gives the hook shaft the opportunity to seesaw around in the hole, which, if near the edge, can very easily rip.

[Dick Dastardly]

Yes the lady has said it.

 

For the record I always use semi barbless trebles (for those who do not know this means two of the points are barbless and one barbed)for both Pike and Zander.I personally find I lose fewer pike on these as the barbless hook penetrates the hard mouth easier and obviously the unhooking is far easier.Some people find they lose a lot on these hooks but for me the secret is to play the fish hard.

 

For Perch I do not like barbless hooks as I have found them to penetrate to deeply.If the hook is back in the throat this can result in damage to vital orgams such as the heart.

 

Dont like barbless for big fish like carp for the reasons given in the post above.

 

The rest of my "specimen" fishing is done with either,no real preference.

 

For big cats I have always used large barbed singles condeming the use of trebles as unnesessary however I did have a fair argument put to me that the much lesser depth of penetration with a size 3/0 treble caused less potential damage than the depth of penetration of a size 6/0 single.A bit of a mute point with treble figure cats but did make me think about some close shaves with UK cats taken on 3/0 single hooks,where the point had come out close to the cats eye.

 

Since barbless first became available and up untill a few weeks ago I had always used them for all my light/silver fish/match fishing.Recently I have started to use micro barbs for speed fishing off the surface,Yes it does take a fraction longer to unhook them but as I found the massive number of dropped fish you avoid out weighs this.

 

In general I as others have all ready said feel there is a place for both barbed and barbless hooks.As well as different situations like I have briefly mentioned there is also the individual way each fishes to be taken into acount when deciding which is best.This is why for example some experienced pikers swear by semi barbless and others just swear at them!

 

[ 23. August 2004, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: BUDGIE ]

[Peter Waller]

Have to say that I can't see how a barb can possibly prevent a hook turning as a fish turns. It could so easily be argued that the barb itself could enlarge the hole as the fish turns. Personally I'm not convinced.

[GlennB]

BUDGIE:

For Perch I do not like barbless hooks as I have found them to penetrate to deeply.If the hook is back in the throat this can result in damage to vital orgams such as the heart.

Agreed, but - there's plenty of advice here and elsewhere to just snip the line if a perch is deeply hooked. In which case, how will the fish cope with a barbed/barbless hook stuck well down its throat? It's hard to see how a deeply set barbed hook can be shed, and that must seriously harm the fish's chances of survival. Barbless might risk penetrating more deeply, but is easier for the fish to get rid of.

Personally I'd rather take the barbless way.

[poledark]

Nor me Peter...Allibee says that the "least bit of slack will allow the hook to move back or forward"....Not possible...only the fish or the hooklink can/do move, the hook has to go wherever it is pulled or pushed.

 

The worst and only cases of bouble hooking I have seen or experienced was with the bent hook, and even then only when a fish had become weeded.

 

I suspect strongly that this was due to the hook protruding thro' the lip and getting caught on the weed and pulled thro' and then getting pulled back resulting in double hooking.

 

Never had it or seen it with barbless or normal hooks since.

 

I do wonder about those who fish hair rigs and boilies for carp with barbless....I wonder just how many fish prick themselves and then shake the hook out without the angler knowing?

 

I use both types according to the rules and the type of fishing I am doing,

 

Den

[GlennB]

Peter Waller:

Have to say that I can't see how a barb can possibly prevent a hook turning as a fish turns. It could so easily be argued that the barb itself could enlarge the hole as the fish turns. Personally I'm not convinced.

Totally agree Peter. Intuitively at least, the mechanics of this don't make any sense to me. The forces at work with a decent fish pulling sideways against the hook are huge compared to the trivial resistance offered by a tiny barb. The barb must surely turn in the fish's flesh.

[Baronizer]

The last thing i wanted was to get a heated debate going. I was only asking for some advice as to which hook to use and when. Having now got the answer, with thanks to Leon, Rob.i, Jk and others i now know what to use and when. I only brought up this topic because i was getting fed up of losing some fish on barbless, so having switched to barbed i found out that i tended to lose less fish, but on one occasion a big carp had managed to get the barbed hook embedded right into its bottom lip, and when trying to remove it i felt guilty as to some, only minor, but never the less, some damage i caused upon this retrieval. It was then when i wondered whether i should carry on using barbed and risk such an incident happening again, or switch back to barbless and potentially increase my chances of a "bump off". Anyway thanks again.

[GlennB]

Baronizer:

The last thing i wanted was to get a heated debate going.  

You came to the wrong place then

 

Tight lines Baron

[Dick Dastardly]

Not sure of the mechanics but I see bigger holes with babless hooks than barbed after a long fight.Once again I am talking in general.

 

Glenn the easy way would be for me to say we shouldnt be deep hooking perch in the first place!but this would be grossly unfair as it sadly is a fact that no matter how carefull you are it can happen.Whats all this cutting hooks off anyway who do you think you are eh Rex Hunt? Seriously though your point is very valid and really somes up the whole barbed v barbless dilema.

 

Baron,if you think this is heated then you best stay off line come the autumn when the Great Anual Internet Livebait debate starts! Joking aside all the guys on here take debates well and any fall outs are soon forgotton.Unlike many sites I find that most of the most "heated" of threads give good information and interesting alternative viewpoints.Some so well informed and well put that they make you reapraise your own.

[Newt]

Baronizer - this is what I'd class as a very good thread. Lots of information and opinions from a number of experienced anglers.

 

Food for thought and something to learn for almost any of us.

 

Budgie - for your perching use Gamakatsu Octopus Circle hooks in a reasonable size (so nothing smaller than #4). You may still deep hook an occasional one but that hook pattern will greatly reduce the percentage where that happens.

 

I was fishing mostly lobworms this weekend for channel catfish and using a #2. Caught 6 or 7 small perch and perfect lip hooks on all of them. The hooks are micro-barbed so easy enough to remove with no apparent damage. My wife normally uses a #6 for bluegill/sunfish (smaller mouth than perch) and they are seriously greedy little beggars. Other hook styles and she will deep hook about 1 in 4 on a bad day and 1 in 7-8 on a really good day. The octopus circle hooks and often she will catch 50 or 60 with maybe 1 or 2 deep hooked and normally those aren't really hooked so when you tug the hook pops right out.

 

I think the hook-up percentage with sunfish is a little lower but well worth it. For channel catfish, hookups are almost 100% and rarely deep hook any of them either although again, with most other hooks a high percentage manage to swollow the dang hook.