Barbed or Barbless. What's your opinion?

[Leon Roskilly]

Rather than carry out 'thought experiments' as to how different hooks physically behave in different situations, it's far more educational to carry out some real experimenents.

 

Of course, I'm not suggesting hooking live fish, or killing fish for the purpose of experimentation!

 

Chamois leather will demonstrate how much difference barbs make to penetration.

 

Hooking into an orange's peel, and putting on presssure, will demonstrate how barbless slips more easily through soft but reasonably tough material, more easily than barbed.

 

For the seriously inquisitive, fish meant for dinner can be borrowed whilst the cook is out shopping (although that can prove dangerous! "Whose been mucking around with that fish?" "Er, it must have been the cat"!)

 

Experimentation can demolish a lot of cherished theories, and from them we learn facts, not how to copy and repeat other's reasonable sounding but sometimes false opinions.

 

And it keeps you out of mishief when it's raining (though the cook may disagree. "Whose done that to the oranges"!)

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 24. August 2004, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[kleinboet]

Gentlemen, I am going to differ in opinion here and state that is not barbed or barbless hooks that is the problem, but rather hook SIZE. I have caught 6-8lb Carp using a No8 hook and seen damage to the mouth, caused by that hook. I have caught 6-8lb Carp on a No16 hook and seen the hook usually fall out in the landing net and no marks where MY hook had been.

I believe that the fact of catching a larger fish on a small hook triggers the angler into taking more care when playing it. allowing the fish its head - within reason - and not bullying it at all for fear of the pulling out or straightening of the hook gives the angler the extra challenge to land it and extra pride/satisfaction when he does.

[Vagabond]

BUDGIE:

For Perch I do not like barbless hooks as I have found them to penetrate to deeply.If the hook is back in the throat this can result in damage to vital orgams such as the heart.

...and not just perch. Recently I was asked by a fishery owner to dissect out the pharyngeal teeth of one of his fish, to determine whether or not it was a silver bream.

 

In the course of the dissection, I was reminded of just how close the heart is to the back of the throat in fish - it is just a hook-gape away.

 

There has been much good sense set out in this thread, particularly by Leon and Budgie.

 

Any newcomers to fishing should take careful note that there is no straightforward generalised answer to "barbed or barbless?" Each species of fish, each fishing method requires a different approach - many of those approaches are mentioned in this thread.

 

Baronizer has done us all a favour by re-raising the issue.

 

BTW If you think this thread is acrimonious, you should have heard the debate about that silver bream (for that is what it seemed to be, with two rows of pharyngeal teeth each side).

Those who had caught one-pound-plus fish from this venue cheered, those who had not cried "skimmer" and went home to stick pins in a Vagabond effigy.

[Peter Waller]

I've been playing with various hooks and bits of paper, very thin plastic and chamois leather! I get the impression that a barbless hook makes a round hole where a barbed hook makes a very slightly more oval hole. Infact I get the impression that some barbs cut and leave triangular holes. In practical terms I would have thought a round hole was less likely to tear. If we relate the thin plastic to a fish's lips then I can see the logic of barbless. Then, if we relate chamois to the flesh within a fish's mouth, then perhaps there is an arguement in favour of barbed. I'm still not convinced either way. We can't determine, except perhaps with circle hooks, where the hook is going to penetrate, and I think that that is relevant to the debate.

 

I did think of using the cat for experimentation but it must have been able to read my mind and scarpered!

[Guest allibee]

"I do wonder about those who fish hair rigs and boilies for carp with barbless....I wonder just how many fish prick themselves and then shake the hook out without the angler knowing?" Errr loads Den, they get away with it all the time except you'd never see more than some twitching on your bobbin

As for the rest, I can promise you I have it from the horses mouth who sees this day in and day out

[Leon Roskilly]

poledark:

Nor me Peter...Allibee says that the "least bit of slack will allow the hook to move back or forward"....Not possible...only the fish or the hooklink can/do move, the hook has to go wherever it is pulled or pushed.

Be mindful of what a weight can do.

 

With full pressure, a weight will be roughly in line with the direction of pull, but allow the line to slacken, the weight will pendulum down below the fish, changing the angle of force against the hook.

 

Tighten up again, reduce pressure, tighten again, that lead weight swinging around is possibly pulling the hook in all directions.

 

TL - leon

[Russell Fitzpatrick]

wot a debate!

 

i use barbed in most situations,i like to land fish,i beleive that a barbed hook goes in and 9/10 it stays in,the only expetion is my pike and zander fishing,i like others only use semi-barbed trebels with the barb always in the bait not outside it.i completly understand why barbless are better in some circumstances,ie small fish,perch-vital organs etc

[Vagabond]

Ratty46:

i completly understand why barbless are better in some circumstances,ie small fish,perch-vital organs etc

Er...... Ratty, it is BARBED Hooks that are recommended to avoid damage to perch. Was that a slip of the keyboard?

[Russell Fitzpatrick]

oh yeah shows how much i fish for perch!not much,..looks like i dont completly understand doh! (i didnt get up long ago!nightshifts!!)

[Newt]

Vagabond - for perch the "barb vs no barb, how to avoid damage", question can also be related to hook size.

 

I submit that if you stay with hooks 6/0 and larger with a crushed barb, you will never cause damage to the vital organs near the perch's throat and with 10/0 and larger, no mouth damage, ever, with either barbed or barbless.