Snag leader for piking - advice please

[lubemonkey]

Lubemonkey, I can't tell you what WILL work, but I can tell you that Amnesia WONT I lost a string of fish (carp) with cutoffs from Zebras. I tried Amnesia leaders and still got cut off.

 

Chevin, it is getting more and more common for specimen anglers to fish with braid, this is chosen for the high BS /diameter. It is not a matter of what you can land fish with, but simply using line as strong as you can for a given diameter. Same reason we started to use nylon....thinner and stronger than twisted silk.

 

Zebra mussels are very common in the south of England, I have found them in small streams and huge gravel pits. They do seem to flourish in waters with a high chalk(?) content. They are usually about a pea size and are (strangely enough ) Zebra striped.

 

Den

 

Thanks for that Dan - Amnesia was one of the options I was looking at!

[Leon Roskilly]

Hmm, we must be missing something here if line of that strength is standard on a baitcasting rig.

 

I tend to use 30lb braid when fishing light-medium lures, and 50lb+ when fishing heavy jerk-baits.

 

Repeated casting and working of heavy jerk-baits takes it's toll of the line, so a higher diameter lessens the risk of breakage.

 

And it's this risk of breakage that is one of the main reasons that, rather than using the low diameter of braid to reduce line thickness (and improve casting distance), line diameter is kept the same, but the b.s. of the line is increased.

 

Fishing amongst heavy snags, a heavy braid b.s. means that when you do hook up to a tree-trunk, you are more likely to be able to bend the hooks and retrieve the £10-£25+ lure.

 

And pulling out of far-bank brambles and reed beds is far more likely using a low diameter but strong braid.

 

It also means that any fish hooked is virtually certain to be landed, so that the trebles can be removed before it is returned, even in 'abrasive' environments (sharp gravel bars etc), and in places where snags (and pike) abound.

[Emma two]

I am astonished that you would be using 50lb b/s line for pike.

 

I have 3 lure set ups, the lightest 20lb powerpro braid, with a wand of a six foot rod and mulitpier, a spinning rod and fixed spool reel with 50lb powerpro and a heavyweight poker stiff jerk rod with 80lb powepro on a mulitplier. Its the style and shock potential of the lures which require lines like that, not the (pity) size of the fish. the lightweight set I use for perch and trout. On lots of places a minimum of 15Lbs BS mono is recommended and on some its a rule and you get chased home with anything less.

 

Sorry, I can't contribute anything about mussels, we don't have 'em up here, probably too cold for the buggers.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Emma two

[poledark]

Emma, doubt it is to cold for the little b####rs, they originated in Eastern Europe/Russian waters, and are becoming a real problem in the Great Lakes.

 

Leon, I wish I had 50lb braid available in my youth, would have saved me a fortune in lost lures and spinners. I would go to the tackle shop on Friday and stock up with Vibros and a couple of spoons, fish on Saturday and lose most of them 12lb nylon breaks to easily for me to use it for spinning these days.

 

 

 

Den

Edited October 25, 2009 by poledark

[chevin]

We seem to have adopted the American term "bait casting" when referring to lure casting now as opposed to actual bait fishing with bait, Perhaps this was what was meant?

 

Some of the high breaking strain braids are used because of the size and weight of some of the lures being cast with stiff rods rather than to beat a fish.

 

 

My baitcasting, and that of many of my friends is just that. We cast baits. Just as effective in most cases as lures, no treble hooks and the bait falls away so that the hooks are not obscured when you are tryng to unhook the fish.

 

Ken, as far as bottom fishing over coral is concerned the breaking strain would make little difference except that the 50lb b/s line would be more difficult to break. Certainly in the coral areas I fish you would snag on every cast. Yes, I would use lighter line in mangroves, other than my big game rods none of my rods are built to take line of that strength so only pressure to that specification can be applied without endangering the rod.

Edited October 26, 2009 by chevin

[chevin]

It's a mature pit and the water level went up significantly a couple of seasons ago. The surrounding trees are now in/over the water and the zebra mussels have taken hold on the solid stuff. Don't get the impression I'm fishing baits right in a load of sunken trees - I'm not - but once the fish are under the road tip, this overhanging canopy is very close. The two fish I've lost have dived under this canopy and the braid has worn through on the mussels - they are small and very sharp edged. This is the first time I've ever experienced losses on the Power Pro due to abrasion.

 

 

OK, sorry, I was thinking of overhanging branches. Submerged branches are a different thing altogether - I can understand them creating thew problems you describe. It seems that my fishing buddies and I see different virtues in braided and mono lines which, considering the differences in the environments in which they are used, is not really surprising. Anyway, it seems that my note provoked a few replies to your call for help so while I may not have helped you with the problem, perhaps I have helped in a more round-about way.

[Waveney One]

OK, sorry, I was thinking of overhanging branches. Submerged branches are a different thing altogether - I can understand them creating thew problems you describe. It seems that my fishing buddies and I see different virtues in braided and mono lines which, considering the differences in the environments in which they are used, is not really surprising. Anyway, it seems that my note provoked a few replies to your call for help so while I may not have helped you with the problem, perhaps I have helped in a more round-about way.

 

Hi mate glad to see you are still keeping people on their toes!

 

Zebra mussels are a new curse to these isles that you would not have encountered before you left. They grow in huge bunches like their salt water cousins on rocks, smallish stones even, lumps of wood anything that is stable and in the water for long enough. I have even seen them covering a rod and reel that couldn't have been in the water all that long. They certainly don't mind attaching themselves to wood in the water. They are blocking inlet and outlet pipes for power stations and at reservoirs and costing hundreds of thousands of pounds all over the northern hemisphere now.

 

Apart from their ability to cut line like a pair of scissors a further problem is that being filter feeders they are making rivers run clear for 99% of the time and lakes almost 100% thereby making or very hard fishing. They are very small but certainly I have seen them larger than any pea I could grow!

 

The really strong braid is quite normal for lure fishing for pike nowadays as well. As someone mentioned one of the reasons being that you can pull some enormous snags in with it or if the snag is immovable then the lures hooks bend

[Leon Roskilly]

As someone mentioned one of the reasons being that you can pull some enormous snags in with it

 

 

Lure-anglers probably have the biggest collections of second-hand swim-feeders in the game

[Emma two]

Lure-anglers probably have the biggest collections of second-hand swim-feeders in the game

 

 

It's true, we pull all kinds of things in. Sometimes we even get a free nice lure, invariably on attached to mono!

[Dick Dastardly]

Choosing braid by diameter rather than breaking strain is definately the way to go.90% o8f the people Ive met who have problems with braid do so because they are still selecting by breaking strain and therefore using ultra thin lines.

 

Lube,Zebras are a bitch! Fished a few waters here and abroad where they can be a problem.Can I offer a solution? well yes and no! In your case I think yes.

 

If your fishing sessions for carp Ive come to the conclusion that the main problem is that the line has been cast out over open mussels but when you retrieve the mussels have now closed.I believe this is because they are open at night but closed by day.Ive no biological proof of this just that it seems to be first thing in the morning that you have the problem.To further back this when fishing the near hot water outlet areas on the Twente cannal in Holland (the bottom is quite soft) Ive actually wound in to find mussels (sometimes still attached to their rocks!) on the line.

 

When fishing over very sharp/mussel covered bars on big pits I eventually started using Kevlar bow string material.Not cheap but its extremely abbrassion resistant without being stiff luike the hard monos. This (if your ledgering your baits) would definately help solve your problem. That said why not simply just not ledger ie float paternoster the baits? Good presentation and control and no problem with the mussels?