Free Angling Coaching On The River Wensum In Norwich

[andy_youngs]

Quite right Lyn. I don't know exactly what Andy's complaints are but as I understand it membership of the NACA is open to all.

Almost right. You might have to go on a waiting list for about 10 years, AND pay an annual maintenance fee during that period, and at the end of it you might be accepted.

 

But if all you want to do is go down to your local river and catch some native roach and brown trout then you will be disappointed. You will be prevented from doing so by barbel fishermen.

 

The reason I am questioning the presence of barbel in the Wensum is because I'm not sure whether it's sustainable in the long term. As NACA will freely admit, the otters are decemating the barbel stocks and their numbers cannot be replenished artificially due to the rivers SAC and SSSI status.

 

A famous quote by barbel fishermen is that this is a valid reintroduction because two scientists, Wheeler and Jordan, speculated back in 1990 that barbel might have existed in the Wensum at some point since the end of Anglian Glaciation (a period which ended some 478,000 years ago).

 

But they also stated that "small and slow-flowing lowland rivers probably contained only limited suitable habitats for this species and their populations would have been small and vulnerable to environmental changes"

 

So, the taxpayer is supposed to pour thousands of pounds into river improvment schemes, so that barbel can be introduced into an alian environment, otters can be fed, and the public can be denied the right to navigate the river. Does that really make any sense?

Edited October 30, 2009 by andy_youngs

[andy_youngs]

I think it's more to do with canoe access...

Correct

[andy_youngs]

I can't comment on your problem with NACA only that barbel have been in the Wensum for a long time.

The first barbel introductions were made in the late 1950's. The EA freely acknowledge that they were not present in the Wensum prior to that date.

 

They use a 150 year rule, ie, if there is no record of a naturally occuring presence of a species within the last 150 years then they are deemed to be non native.

 

There are usually sound environmental reasons for this, and that is why the EA adopt such policies.

 

The reality is that 99% of the barbel in the Wensum are stocked fish. A study was done several years ago which concluded that whilst a small amount of natural recruitment was taking place, it was a painfully slow process, which was not happening at a sustainable level. That's in spite of the introduction of thousands of fingerlings into the catchment together with the creation of artificial spawning grounds, all provided at considerable public expense.

[Anderoo]

... and their numbers cannot be replenished artificially due to the rivers SAC and SSSI status.

 

Maybe that should read 'replenished legally' - fish have a habit of mysteriously turning up all over the place...!

[lutra]

The first barbel introductions were made in the late 1950's. The EA freely acknowledge that they were not present in the Wensum prior to that date.

 

They use a 150 year rule, ie, if there is no record of a naturally occuring presence of a species within the last 150 years then they are deemed to be non native.

 

There are usually sound environmental reasons for this, and that is why the EA adopt such policies.

 

The reality is that 99% of the barbel in the Wensum are stocked fish. A study was done several years ago which concluded that whilst a small amount of natural recruitment was taking place, it was a painfully slow process, which was not happening at a sustainable level. That's in spite of the introduction of thousands of fingerlings into the catchment together with the creation of artificial spawning grounds, all provided at considerable public expense.

The 1950's seems to have been a good time for barbel as history has it they got transported to lots of new rivers back then. I think the Angling Times had a hand in a good bit of it, but I don't know about the Wensum.

 

Ive never had the pleasure of fishing or even seen the Wensum, but from what I've heard its one of the top (if not the top) big barbel rivers in the country. So if it struggles with "natural recruitment" of new barbel and given the hard time of it the barbel are said to be having with otters on there, I can sort of understand why the barbel heads are being a little protective.

 

How naturally occurring was it for gangs of people to turning up in cars with plastic canoe's 150 years ago Andy?

 

Like i said i don't know the area, but I'm lead to believe there is quite a lot of water around there. Is it not possible for you to avoid barbel spawning sites at key times?

[lyn]

It's not only the barbel that are spawning in the spring and the trouble is that if we have a cold spring they will all be spawing in June/July once the rivers have reopened. As river angler we all respect the 'closed season' on the rivers and some lakes/canals maybe the canoe/boating people should do the same.

 

Take Basingstoke canal it is a triple SSSI site so it has a closed season to anglers but not to boats, which in my opinion would cause far more damage to mating/hatching dragon flies than any angler sat quietly on the bank. As an angler and having the canal nearly in my back garden, I have to respect the fact it's closed and maybe, andy_youngs, you should do the same.

 

lyn

[mark barrett]

Hold up a minute here. Andy you are not telling the truth here as regards NACA's inolvement with the Wensum.

 

First of all the original project at Lynn (Sayers meadow) was not undertaken with public money, it was done with investment from the anglers themselves and the club, and as such those members that put up the cash were given the first opportunity to fish it, which is only fair. As those members dropped out so those on the waiting list have gotten on. Yes there is a substantial waiting list on this stretch, but its the only one which has. the new project at Cosstessey isnt fully subscribed and can easily be accessed, all you have to do is to join NACA, at a cost of £12.50, then the syndicate fee for the year which i think is about £60, hardly expensive is it?

 

Yes the EA has provided some financial input, in the shape of stock fish, but most of the money has come from the club or the membership, the vast majority.

 

That they dont let canoes down that part of the river I would 100% concur with. The Wensum in those reaches is a tiny, tiny river and the thoughts of dozens of canoes coming down it would inevtably lead to conflict, because they would be just too intrusive to other water users and to the wildlife.

 

Also you have nelected to mention all the other work that NACA has done in the area. The running and management of the Bawburh complex, the coaching days there at the open day, spreading the enjoyment of angling at the Spring Fling at the showground in the summer half term, etc etc.

 

I think slating what is a very progressive, proactive and conservation minded club because the deny you access to a part of the river where you have no right to be, is hardly very fair.

[andy_youngs]

The 1950's seems to have been a good time for barbel as history has it they got transported to lots of new rivers back then. I think the Angling Times had a hand in a good bit of it, but I don't know about the Wensum.

 

Ive never had the pleasure of fishing or even seen the Wensum, but from what I've heard its one of the top (if not the top) big barbel rivers in the country. So if it struggles with "natural recruitment" of new barbel and given the hard time of it the barbel are said to be having with otters on there, I can sort of understand why the barbel heads are being a little protective.

 

Perhaps someone from the EA could help here by clearly documenting the stocking history. My understanding is that there were small introductions throughout the late 1950's and 60's, but these were very limited. Artificial stocking started occurring in earnest in the 1970's, and then seems to have been suspended. Throughout the late 70's and early 80's, good barbel fishing was enjoyed. However towards the latter half of the 1980's numbers started to dwindle, and it looked as if the river would revert to its natural state, ie, barbel free. And then the introductions resumed again, 1000 in 1990, 300 in 1995. 200 in 1996, 400 in 2001. Maybe there were more, I'm open to being educated on that one.

 

I certainly take issue with the suggestion that this is one of the top big barbel rivers in the country. Sure, there are artificially stocked fish in this river which grow big, but if I wanted to catch a big barbel I wouldn't head to the wensum anymore than I would head to a dry ski slope to learn how to ski.

 

I certainly agree that it's understandable why the barbel heads are being a little protective, but that doesn't excuse thuggish behaviousr. Make no mistakes, there are people in their ranks that are the angling equivalent of football hooligans. The only difference is that football is actively trying to root out the thugs. The Angling Trust is encouraging them.

 

How naturally occurring was it for gangs of people to turning up in cars with plastic canoe's 150 years ago Andy?

No idea, there were possibly barges though, please keep it relevant mate

 

Like i said i don't know the area, but I'm lead to believe there is quite a lot of water around there. Is it not possible for you to avoid barbel spawning sites at key times?

It's certainly possible to portage around them, if the law required that. But we all know that barbel spawn well into July, so why should I have to portage around a spawning riffle in May, whilst a barbel fisherman presents a baited hook in June? It makes no environmental sense and it smacks of gross hypocracy.

[andy_youngs]

It's not only the barbel that are spawning in the spring and the trouble is that if we have a cold spring they will all be spawing in June/July once the rivers have reopened. As river angler we all respect the 'closed season' on the rivers and some lakes/canals maybe the canoe/boating people should do the same.

 

Take Basingstoke canal it is a triple SSSI site so it has a closed season to anglers but not to boats, which in my opinion would cause far more damage to mating/hatching dragon flies than any angler sat quietly on the bank. As an angler and having the canal nearly in my back garden, I have to respect the fact it's closed and maybe, andy_youngs, you should do the same.

 

lyn

lyn, you might persuade me to accept that a river is closed to navigation during the closed fishing season, if is was open to navigation during the open fishing season. But it isn't. As far as I can see most rivers are closed to navigation during the closed fishing season, and are also closed to navigation during the open fishing season. And that's before we even get into the argument as to whether either fishing or canoeing might be environmentally damaging.

[andy_youngs]

Hold up a minute here. Andy you are not telling the truth here as regards NACA's inolvement with the Wensum.

 

First of all the original project at Lynn (Sayers meadow) was not undertaken with public money, it was done with investment from the anglers themselves and the club, and as such those members that put up the cash were given the first opportunity to fish it, which is only fair. As those members dropped out so those on the waiting list have gotten on. Yes there is a substantial waiting list on this stretch, but its the only one which has. the new project at Cosstessey isnt fully subscribed and can easily be accessed, all you have to do is to join NACA, at a cost of £12.50, then the syndicate fee for the year which i think is about £60, hardly expensive is it?

 

Yes the EA has provided some financial input, in the shape of stock fish, but most of the money has come from the club or the membership, the vast majority.

 

really? I heard the majority came from a lottery fund grant. Agreed the many members have put there own money into it, but that's their decision.

 

That they dont let canoes down that part of the river I would 100% concur with. The Wensum in those reaches is a tiny, tiny river and the thoughts of dozens of canoes coming down it would inevtably lead to conflict, because they would be just too intrusive to other water users and to the wildlife.

 

I don't know how to respond to that one mark. You do not own this land. How dare you be so arrogant ... shame on you.

 

Also you have nelected to mention all the other work that NACA has done in the area. The running and management of the Bawburh complex, the coaching days there at the open day, spreading the enjoyment of angling at the Spring Fling at the showground in the summer half term, etc etc.

 

I think slating what is a very progressive, proactive and conservation minded club because the deny you access to a part of the river where you have no right to be, is hardly very fair.

My basic problem with NACA is that they present themselves as eco warriors who are primarily concerned with the environment. Even the name "Norfolk Anglers Conservation Association" implies that they are primarily concerned with conservation issues. They are not. They are prilmarily concerned with artificially creating large numbers of enormous barbel in an alien environment, and this has NOTHING to do with conservation.

 

I might as well say that gnu once roamed the Wensum Valley, so I'm going to re-introduce them and if anyone tries to interfere then they must be stopped at all costs. It's not the presence of barbel I object to so much as the presence of barbel fishermen. Sorry, but there it is.