Angling Trust Forum

[Mark Lloyd]

Hi Steve,

I can't comment on e-mails which are rumoured to exist and I must confess I don't really understand what this whole e-mail gate thing is about. I can't control what volunteers write to each other, and I also have no desire, or ability to control what you write. I can assure you that neither I nor my staff have any desire to sort you or anyone else out.

Your views, and pictures in your magazine of you peeling your AT sticker off your car window, are voluminously-written and well-read, and I'm sure have persuaded many people not to join us. It's entirely up to you if you want to discourage people from joining. I hope that we'll be able to do enough positive things this year to persuade you and others that you're wrong. If we don't, then you'll be proved right and we'll sink.

I just ask that you give us a little slack and try and look for the positives. If you always look for shortcomings, you'll be sure to find them. I am as frustrated as you, I'm just trying to make this thing work for the benefit of us all.

I'd love to have the resources to set up a fancy system for nomination of sites for MCZs, but I'm afraid that we don't have the staff time for the web development or the money to do that yet, so I thought we'd encourage anglers to use a well-put together system which was already in place to make their views known. If we all had our say on that site, our views could not be ignored.

If you'd like to propose some sites which should be protected, but where angling should be allowed, then I'd be happy to publicise them through our network to encourage anglers to vote for them? Any other constructive suggestions welcome, bearing in mind that we have very little resource.

All best wishes,

Mark

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for the reply Mark.

 

I can understand the administrative problems such an undertaking must involve but feel that maybe you moved (or tried to move) to fast.Maybe getting the communication and infrastructure sorted before taking on any battles might have been a better way? however easy to say with hind sight I suppose and some of today's current issues wouldnt have waited for the AT to be "ready".

 

I can understand that the need for members is most important both financially and representational but dont you think the "have to join" tactics (I wont say "compulsory membership" as that wouldnt strictly be fair or true at this time) have actually put people off ie the Fishomania thing etc?

 

The rather arrogant attitude of some of your members has also not helped.However things like you coming on here have. Maybe the AT should have a full time liason officer who does target all the well used angling sites? A great shame that all licence holders cant be kept in the loop on a regular basis as well.If they saw things happening but were not being (seemingly) pushed to join they may well join or at least have a more positive opinion of AT? Quite how (funds permitting) this would happen though I dont know but I would have thought this a number one priority?

 

The reason I asked about how I could find out what your (AT's) stance was on issues important to me is that (and I'm sure its the same for a massive amount of other potential members) is simply that if we dont share the same view or I dont believe we could ever come to a compromise then why would I want to give you my support? Kind of obvious and like you said very difficult to administer maybe but I would certainly think even a simple list of the AT's views on the commonest issues would be a start and someone to contact re any that aren't listed?

 

I can see what you say about members kind of "self funding" the very services I'm asking for but as I keep saying getting members in the first place must be the priority. sorry it goes around in circles doesn't it!

 

I was surprised at the number of members you all ready have though (anyone know how this compares to the number of licence holders save me looking it up?).

 

Well once again thanks for your time Mark the AT has not won me over yet (you can surely understand after 45 years of angling and seeing "bodies" come and go why the likes of myself are a bit negative?) but your reply (even the simple fact that you have) means I will keep watching and looking for the thing that will make me join and support you.BUT it certainly wont be anything on the lines of the way issues have been handled so far.Good luck.

[Steve Coppolo]

Hello Mark

I very much doubt whether anything I write has any effect on AT membership numbers. I'll bet you didn't get a flurry of new members when I wrote the positive articles. It is not my intention to dissuade people from joining the AT, I just try to put out relevant information for those who want to read it. The hope is that they will then be able to decide for themselves whether to join or not based on all the facts, not just cherry picked good points and soundbytes. If all anglers joined the AT as a matter of course, what incentive would there be to make it an organisation that anglers actually want to join? I saw the promotion of a sea angling licence, among other things, by some of the 'magnificent 7' as being in direct conflict with the views of sea anglers. I think it is only right that the people who will be affected are made aware of such things.

 

I would dearly love to be able to write positive things about the Angling Trust, but the fact remains that, as I see it, the negatives that keep cropping up far outweigh anything positive that might be happening in the background. A good example is the press release that was sent out today. It states that the AT supports a move to ban anglers from taking eels, whilst commercial fishing for eels and elvers is allowed to continue. I find this to be an unbelievable stance from a representative body that claims to defend anglers against unfiar threats to their sport. Even if the AT's main concern was conservation, to support such a measure is madness, in my opinion.

 

 

Good luck for 2010, Mark. I wish you well, but don't envy your task.

[Worms]

Greg Whitehead,

Angling Times News Reporter

Tel: 01733 395103

 

A copy word for word of yet another one of those 'emails' First sight this guy appears to be doing the AT a favour, however sight of yet another email going around from the same guy, my opinion is that he will be doing the AT no good at all, as he don't know or understand where the rsa are coming from. So the suggestion for this guy is to go away and study, then you may be of use. Don't want a unqualified 'rep' or ambassador or whatever he makes himself out to be speaking on my behalf.

Are we talking about the same, "other" e-mail Barry? I'm only talking about half of Tarka Dall and it's nothing to do with an Indian meal! That one might get the guy into a whole heap of trouble.......watch this space!

Edited January 7, 2010 by Worms

[barry luxton]

Are we talking about the same, "other" e-mail Barry? I'm only talking about half of Tarka Dall and it's nothing to do with an Indian meal! That one might get the guy into a whole heap of trouble.......watch this space!

 

Ok Worms here is another from the same guy, highly opinionated against the rsa unfortunatly. Trying to see where this guy is coming from, i would say that he has got mates within other angling circles away from the rsa who have a different opinion and is trying to score points, make a name for himself off the backs of the rsa. Who again have an unrestricted, unbroke healthy, industry. Just who are the anarchists.

 

Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:13 PM

Subject: RE: Sales of fishing licences hit new record in 2009

 

 

So they will lose everything they hold dear piecemeal without ever being heard. How terribly sad and depressing.

I have to confess to never having understood a single sea angler I've ever had a decent conversation with. But whichever way you look at it, if they don't embrace sportfishing they're done for..... And what is more anglers from other disciplines won't sympathise with them one little bit if they don't understand where they're coming from....

 

Greg Whitehead,

Angling Times News Reporter

Edited January 7, 2010 by barry luxton

[Worms]

I got that one too. He doesn't strike me as being amongst the sharpest knives in the draw considering his "position"

[H.A.]

I just try to put out relevant information for those who want to read it

 

I read what you write, Stevie.

 

And to be honest (and I have been), I'm sick of it.

 

If you really believe the krap you write, you'd stop writing it (relevant information?????).

 

Surely anglers ('proper' or not), are quite capable of making up their minds about whether they wish to support or criticise that which which Brussels and Defra put out.

Not forgetting, of course, that most 'want to be left alone'.

 

But that's what the civil servants do.

 

So, let them be and take what they give you?

 

I didn't want the poll tax, nor the VAT thing; and I let my MP know that .....

and in a small way, that must affect something.

 

Your continued ducking, diving, ostrich-stance cuts no ice with me.

 

Why the hell Barham continues with your copy is beyond me.

 

Perhaps you need a good sorting out with your angling abilities .... shore or boat?

 

I reckon DB could sort us a venue and boat/beach .... you'll be on to a hiding there too!

 

You're a cynical and hopeless case.

 

Shame.

 

[Steve Coppolo]

I read what you write, Stevie.

 

And to be honest (and I have been), I'm sick of it.

 

If you really believe the krap you write, you'd stop writing it (relevant information?????).

 

Surely anglers ('proper' or not), are quite capable of making up their minds about whether they wish to support or criticise that which which Brussels and Defra put out.

Not forgetting, of course, that most 'want to be left alone'.

 

But that's what the civil servants do.

 

So, let them be and take what they give you?

 

I didn't want the poll tax, nor the VAT thing; and I let my MP know that .....

and in a small way, that must affect something.

 

Your continued ducking, diving, ostrich-stance cuts no ice with me.

 

Why the hell Barham continues with your copy is beyond me.

 

Perhaps you need a good sorting out with your angling abilities .... shore or boat?

 

I reckon DB could sort us a venue and boat/beach .... you'll be on to a hiding there too!

 

You're a cynical and hopeless case.

 

Shame.

 

 

Hello Adrian.

 

****s.

 

Goodnight Adrian.

[barry luxton]

Surely anglers ('proper' or not), are quite capable of making up their minds about whether they wish to support or criticise that which which Brussels and Defra put out.

Not forgetting, of course, that most 'want to be left alone'.

 

Your continued ducking, diving, ostrich-stance cuts no ice with me.

 

Why the hell Barham continues with your copy is beyond me.

 

Perhaps you need a good sorting out with your angling abilities .... shore or boat?

 

I reckon DB could sort us a venue and boat/beach .... you'll be on to a hiding there too!

 

Some of us have made up minds H A. Although it's like a tug of war at the mo with regards to what 'side' you are on. Stay on one side and your insulted to pay, join an org that even with another 4000 lots of twenty quids, will only be enough for a publicity officer. It still wouldn't be enough to take on the disgusting antics of the EA, defra, the EU etc, as you must be aware of the dross that they are handing out to the rsa here and now, more to come unfortunatly. Even on a tiny scale, don't you think the A T could have intervend and asked for sight of the proof, before the idiots put up barriers with regards to the rsa fishing christchurch, weymouth it is then, one email might have been sufficient. So just the same as you speak to your mp's i will carry on carrying on in the hope these ngo guys will run out of our money or get sacked as their paymasters run out of handing it out. I have asked before, how much the likes of defra have spent, wasted so far this year, bet it will be over budjet. Only in the hope that the government are getting edgy about it. Anyway the change in the purse strings this year might sort it don't you think.

 

An equal footing is required. What the AT could do with as Mark's hands are tied is some other form of funding. No disrespects but if the org is that vital for the well being of the uk's healthy profitable angling industry, perhaps an ngo status, then money will be no problem, then they can negotiate together with regards to whatever wants the ngo's have and we can go fishing. Unfortunatly, a government change might just put the kybosh on that?

What do you think about this self proclaimed hack Gregg then, if he ain't a loose cannon i don't know who is, do you. Someone needs to tell him the rsa don't go around killing most of our catch, nice to put something fresh on the plate though.

 

Did you mention fishing H A , in the uk's waters, i would be up for that. Channel, top, middle or bottom, western approaches, or just a little bit further, out in the atlantic to make it a bit interesting, or would you prefer site of land.

 

Another example of the screws being tightend is the one below. I'm not stealing thunder from Leon who has kindly put this on the net, as i have already done this one previously. However the suits over there have hidden proposed rsa restriction deep within a consultation. The only reason for that i can see, is they do not wish too many people to comment and will announce with resounding success without opposition most have asked for licences etc. Devious bast@ds.

 

http://www.fishnewseu.com/latest-news/uk/2...nd-shortly.html

Edited January 8, 2010 by barry luxton

[Mark Lloyd]

Steve,

With regard to eels, measures to control commercial fishing for eels are also proposed in parallel to the ban on recreational angling. The Environment Agency will stop issuing marine eel licences, reduce the number of licences for freshwater commercial eel fishermen and toughen up conditions for those that are allowed. A closed season will also be imposed to further reduce commercial eel fishing.

We can only push for these measures if we are seen to be doing our bit, and eel populations are in such a terrible state that it really is unacceptable for them to be killed if they can be returned alive.

All best,

mark