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Elton

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Yes I believe that RSA needs governing, if it improves our fish stocks, our right to fish piers, jetties, harbour arms without persecution. Or we can all carry on as normal, do nothing, represent nothing, pay nothing, give nothing back to the sport that we all love so much, and continue to catch the odd fish here and there, ...............................until their all gone. Then take up golf.

 

Hello Reg

 

How does governing RSA improve our fish stocks?

Anglers have no rights to fish piers, jetties and harbour arms that is down to the owners how are you going to take that away from them?

I generally catch a lot more than the odd fish here and there, I am never going to believe the state of fear propaganda of "...............................until their all gone." the UK government is doing a fine job of destroying the commercial fishing industry with out your help so why not carry on as normal and do nothing?

 

 

Ps I would be interested in the part of the strategy that says "fight against the dumping of thousands of tonnes of dead fish back into the sea", and how the AT would cure the problem.

I fish to live and live to fish.

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"As a subscriber for many years, I expect the editor to be both professional and respectful to its subscribers........... you are not. "

As a sea angler for many years, and a sea fishing magazine editor for many years, I expect the top brass of my supposed 'national governing body for all anglers' to be both professional and respectful to it's members and potential members - THEY ARE NOT!

 

Reg, I stand by what I said - I AM all in favour of an organisation if they can help 'save' our sport - but I'm afraid that the AT has already demonstrated the exact opposite.

It seems that you haven't quite read my quote correctly either - "If they are willing to talk to real anglers and get their input on what real anglers want, need or foresee happening to the sport, then I can see the AT becoming a force to be reckoned with."

Exactly when has this happened? Oh, that's right, it hasn't!

 

I have bent over backwards to accommodate the AT, but the offer has been publicly turned down - on more than one occasion. How can any organisation hope to change things for the better by working behind closed doors and not letting anyone (grass roots anglers, journalists and yes, magazine editors) know what's going on?

At the time I wrote that quote above, I was led into thinking that the AT was actually going to get off their arse and start sending through promotional material for me to print in the magazine - but yet again they have failed, dismally.

 

I did say I would like to be involved in an advisory capacity, but yet again, in not 'in' with the in crowd - so that's a non-starter too. Apparently, 34 years of sea fishing experience and 16 years working at the forefront of sea fishing magazine publishing doesn't qualify me to have a clue about the UK sea fishing industry or how your regular sea angler views the sport!

In fact, the AT has done as much as it possibly can do to alienate myself and my readers from their organisation. Total lack of contact and total lack of commitment on their part has certainly worked to sway my opinion of them.

 

Unfortunately for you, and the AT, I am in a privileged position - to make my readers aware of the shortcomings of the organisation as far as I am concerned. And yet again - THE OFFER STILL STANDS IF THE AT WANT TO SEND THROUGH NEWS AND PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL I WILL PRINT IT.

It's not my job to shoot down anyone, as an editor I have to follow the unwritten rule of a fair platform for everyone to get up and talk from.

Let's face it - one article in the press in one year is not really good PR is it? If I were sitting on the board of the AT I would have ensured, from day one, that the very first thing to be done was to inform and build relationships with editors of magazines, and online magazines, to help get the ball rolling and drive the momentum to grow membership - not sit back and wait for members to come to us!

 

The whole thing is a joke Reg, and unfortunately you've been brainwashed into the whole scam. Both Steve C and myself have given the AT numerous opportunities to help promote the organisation, and to give them a voice to the sea fishing public, but that has been turned down or ignored far too many times for my liking - How, exactly, do think I should feel about the situation? My sea fishing rights are being swept from under my nose and there's not a damned thing I can do about it, because joining the AT would be adding more fuel to the fire as it stands at this present moment in time.

 

If the AT had kept in close contact with me, from the off, and had taken up my very generous offer of a full page per month in the magazine to help promote and inform, then my opinion of them may very well have been different to that which it is now!

I guess I've just got tired, and quite frankly bored of the whole cat and mouse game of trying to find out what the hell this very secretive organisation is all about!

 

 

Great reply Dave, and one that I expected and hoped for.

 

But, for all your hard work, years of dedicated experience and offers of help, and a great BFM by the way, you then throw it all away with stupid sarcastic comments towards SEA ANGLERS and their hopes of a better sport, just because they dare to believe in something you don't. I have not been brainwashed Dave, as I said to Steve C, I have fears from within, REAL FEARS with regard the NFSA, like all sea anglers who know what they did to our sport, but the fears of doing nothing are far far greater. If sea anglers do not unite how can we change the future, how can we get shot of the bad apples in the NFSA within the AT marine committees, which Steve and Wayne keep refering too, the answer is we can not DAVE.

 

Steve walked away when we asked him time and time again to help shape the AT from within, Wayne is hindering the efforts of ALL AT committee members by blaming them as one instead of helping to ouse the bad apples. My God, Wayne has so much to offer anglers, total commitment to a worthwhile cause. There must be a better way of doing things, a better way of communication between staff.

 

As far as your past efforts Dave, I will email Mike Heylin and ask why the AT has not responded, strange, because there is advertsing in the other sea angling magazines, some of which I subscribe to as well. Have you thought that the answer may just be that they do not find your comments satisfactory.

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Hello Reg

 

How does governing RSA improve our fish stocks?

Anglers have no rights to fish piers, jetties and harbour arms that is down to the owners how are you going to take that away from them?

I generally catch a lot more than the odd fish here and there, I am never going to believe the state of fear propaganda of "...............................until their all gone." the UK government is doing a fine job of destroying the commercial fishing industry with out your help so why not carry on as normal and do nothing?

 

 

Ps I would be interested in the part of the strategy that says "fight against the dumping of thousands of tonnes of dead fish back into the sea", and how the AT would cure the problem.

 

Wurzel,

 

I will answer that in a response to Barry, for information take time out to read the AT Strategy and AT response to the review of the CFP, its all there. The underlying problem here is that every sea angler wants to blame someone, the AT is the easy target, the AT are getting all the flack because of the NFSA within the AT marine committee. The real targets should be the EU, our pathetic Government, the CFP and SOME commercial fleets GREED.

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You are exactly right Wayne, thirty years i have been going down there, that's a foto of my boy who has now caught his first pollock, that was returned btw. This is the spot where two lots of our families , not just father and son, but three generations, have been going in recent years, a few mackerel, cooked immeadiatly on the barbie. Taken a few bags of rubbish up out of the quarry myself, walking a mile and a half, some of it extreamly uphill.

 

This is what the do gooders wish to ban, this is what the A T have washed their hands of. How the hell can anyone in their right minds wish to stop something like this. This is why there is resistance and for gawds sake, does anyone expect anything different. Now tell me Reg, what can the A T do to turn this around?

 

The mcs argument for closing this area is sea caves and rock pinnicles, tell me, what damage can this angler and their families do Reg. The rock pinnicles are west of this point Reg, in an area that can only be fished by mountain goats, so that is protected naturally in any event, with a 300' cliff. This is the area that the mcs have said will benifit from overspill of the protected specis for us anglers to enjoy. All of this area is of rock, unfishable apart from rod and line and potting, for the last three generations that i know of. The mcs state that trawlers work nearby. Reg, it is just around the corner from Brixham harbour, thats why Reg. And the mcs with backing from the A T want to put a stop to these dreadfull activities for the good of all. You agree with that Reg? Please don't offer up the win some loose some chestnut in this instance either as you will have wasted time and will be disrespectful to my knowledge of the area, just like the mcs are.

 

It's not a rant Reg, it's fact. Can you offer up a reasoned argument that the A T have got it right? Bring on the 'big' guns like Arthur, can he offer up something to the benifit in this case. I very much doubt it, willing to listen though.

 

How do you argue against this realisticly and honestly. No contest.

 

I have also botherd to use this poster now and again Reg because i care very much for the area, and with the A T's help this is what they want to take away from me and no doubt many thousands of other people in the future, what can the A T do to placate my fear of what they are about to cock up Reg.

Right, i'm now off plundering somewhere near the french coast today, can the A T help me? Back this evening, looking forward to the reply already. :)

 

DontbeaTosser72dpi700hcpJPEG.jpg

 

 

Barry, I understand your argument, I really do.

 

However, the AT do not want to restrict your fishing, or any other angler. These MCZ's, NTZ's etc are being forced upon our Government because of their total lack of respect for our seas over the past 40 years. The EU have devastated our seas with a blatant disregard for the marine bio-diversity of our seas. The commercial fleets around our coastline are responsible for ripping up the seabed, they massacre our fish stocks when they are spawning, it's all profit, profit, profit. These are the people responsible for the state we are in, not the AT. The AT needs your support, my support and the support of every angler to help fight against closure to our fishing venues. The government have thrown this right at the feet of the AT so they don't have to cop the flak, disgraceful. The AT are fighting this very issue for all anglers and if what I am hearing, they are starting to win this one. The AT want to make sure that our fishing venues that fall inside these zones are not taken away, bar the most important habitats that cannot cope with RSA. Even then, they are asking for a review on access rights within a short period of time. You will find out more by reading the papers mentioned before, if you can't find the information, then talk to Mike Heylin, he will listen to you.

 

I hope you understand that I know how you are feeling.

 

I fished Shoreham Harbour for twenty years, spent most of my youth fishing there and loved everyday. My sister taught me to fish there, my first fish being a Bullhead, loved it!. I was instantly hooked. I learned to catch lots of different species over the years. I would finish school on the Friday, go straight down the beach to dig blow lug, walk back home, fill my rucksack and walk another 2 miles to Shoreham Harbour. When I left school I fished even more, spending most of the weekend fishing, day and night. In those days the fishing was great, loads of Bass, GGMullet, Sole, Flounder, Channel Whiting, Codling, Bream, Garfish just about every species you could think off. Then slowly the fish started of drop away and fishing was getting harder and harder, to a point where all we could catch was Rockling and small Pout. So I decided to get a boat and go to sea, the fishing was fantastic, new species like Thornback Rays, Undulate Rays, Brill, Turbot and many others. Now things have started to drop away again, only now I am a secretary of a boat angling club. This year we had to reduce our minimum competition sizes to weigh in because in most competitions throughout the year, only one fish was big enough to weigh in.

 

Everyday I leave the port, I go past the harbour arms where I use to fish and most of the time they are empty. When I use to fish there, sometimes you had to jocking for a position on the arms it was so packed with sea anglers. It really eats at my soul! Now there is an angling club called the SAS, Shoreham Angling Squad, they fish the very arms I use to. This club has over a hundred members and they do so much charity work for Childrens Cancer, it really is amazing, yet there is no fish for them to enjoy, THEY DESERVE MUCH BETTER. They keep the arms clean and tidy, they have earned the respect of the local community and are regulary in the local papers for all the hard work they do, and to be honest I dont hear them moaning much, maybe because they are use to catching nothing locally.

 

I have had enough of doing nothing Barry, seeing our sport torn apart, that is why I want changes and for me the AT can be the answer, but the AT need all anglers to support them, including you and your son. The AT are not perfect, not by a long shot, but they can be if RSA stand by them and shape them into the force we need.

 

All this infighting has to stop because we are falling right into the hands of the EU regulations if we continue to do nothing. To answer your questions Barry, any reply I give will be an insult, nothing can justify you losing the right to fish there, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

As far as I am aware the Governing part of the AT stops at the 12 mile zone, but maybe Steve can correct me on this.

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Wurzel,

 

I will answer that in a response to Barry, for information take time out to read the AT Strategy and AT response to the review of the CFP, its all there. The underlying problem here is that every sea angler wants to blame someone, the AT is the easy target, the AT are getting all the flack because of the NFSA within the AT marine committee. The real targets should be the EU, our pathetic Government, the CFP and SOME commercial fleets GREED.

 

Morning Reg, been away off the 12 mile limit, so havn't had time to comment on your comments. :) In the mean time do me a favour and give me the link to the A T strategy and it's responce regarding the cfp as time is short for me at the mo i can read all of them at once this evening. Many thanks. One question on this post, yes i appreciate the A T have put themselves in the firing line, however, i haven't seen any teeth bared in the last year. Is this the laid back approach that is going to build upto something that we can all applaude. For example, the whole of the cfp has been a disaster as far as all are concerned. the E U are the instigators of this and it will take them all till 13 to have something else on the table to try and get something to work in the long term. You see where i'm coming from on this. Therefore it's not fit for purpose, nor are they, waste oe time, effort and money after all these years. So to bare some teeth, don't you think the A T could be lobbying the government to remove our country from this mess. Is that contained in the A T's responce?

Edited by barry luxton

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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Great reply Dave, and one that I expected and hoped for.

 

But, for all your hard work, years of dedicated experience and offers of help, and a great BFM by the way, you then throw it all away with stupid sarcastic comments towards SEA ANGLERS and their hopes of a better sport, just because they dare to believe in something you don't. I have not been brainwashed Dave, as I said to Steve C, I have fears from within, REAL FEARS with regard the NFSA, like all sea anglers who know what they did to our sport, but the fears of doing nothing are far far greater. If sea anglers do not unite how can we change the future, how can we get shot of the bad apples in the NFSA within the AT marine committees, which Steve and Wayne keep refering too, the answer is we can not DAVE.

 

Steve walked away when we asked him time and time again to help shape the AT from within, Wayne is hindering the efforts of ALL AT committee members by blaming them as one instead of helping to ouse the bad apples. My God, Wayne has so much to offer anglers, total commitment to a worthwhile cause. There must be a better way of doing things, a better way of communication between staff.

 

As far as your past efforts Dave, I will email Mike Heylin and ask why the AT has not responded, strange, because there is advertsing in the other sea angling magazines, some of which I subscribe to as well. Have you thought that the answer may just be that they do not find your comments satisfactory.

 

 

To which sea angling magazines are you referring to Reg? Because I get all of them here in the office and I haven't seen anything from the AT in them. Yes, I have gotten bitter, but that's purely out of frustration with how the AT are conducting themselves. I can't believe that they have turned down a very genuine offer of free editorial every month for an entire year. Apart from the 2-pager that Mark wrote, that's been about the extent of contact. Why haven't they pushed Mel and Barney to get space in SA and TSF as well? There are only two reasons for this Reg - either the AT don't want grass roots sea anglers to know their business, or they just can't be bothered!

 

Don't come back with 'they're all really busy and don't have time'. I've heard that before on numerous occasions. The fact is, communication with members and prospective members is by far and away the most important thing for the AT right now. It should be top of their agenda. Why? Because if you haven't got the backing of the recreational sea anglers that you're trying to represent then you're halfway to losing the battle before you start!

 

My views are not necessarily the views of Boat Fishing Monthly magazine. Yes, I am the editor, but like I said in my previous post I am duty bound to give everyone a level platform to voice their opinions. The sheer lack of response from the AT on various forums also rings alarm bells. Why doesn't the AT post on threads and set the record straight on various issues if everyone out there is getting it wrong?

There's much more to this than meets the eye. One can't help but be wary of the whole situation. If someone was badmouthing me on a forum or in a magazine, and had got the wrong end of the stick, I would be quick to react (not retaliate) and voice my opinion to set the record straight.

The AT only have themselves to blame as far as my opinion of them goes. I've tried time and time again (way before I became bitter about the situation) to offer my support to the AT, including the use of BFM as a marketing tool, but the very public lack of response and interest has swayed me to think that something's not right in the AT camp! I can't put it clearer than that. WHY does/ did the Angling Trust NOT WANT TO PROMOTE THEMSELVES TO BOAT ANGLERS FOR FREE?

If you can answer that one for me Reg, I would sleep better at night! Ignore the past three or four months as far as I am concerned - I'm talking about the first 8 months of the AT's existence.

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Hello Reg

Just another quick one to address one or two of the points you are attempting to make.

 

First, how could I have walked away from the Angling Trust when I was never involved with it in the first place? I joined, as an ordinary member, when Stuart McPherson became the Marine Director, (taking over from the old NFSA chairman, Richard Ferre), and Wayne McCully became my local AT regional representative. Things were looking promising, especially after being assured by Mark Lloyd that the Angling Trust knew that the old NFSA bods were bad news and would be 'making changes' at the earliest opportunity. Well, that has turned out to be pie in the sky. Stuart was intent on making necessary changes from within the Angling Trust, but resigned shortly after taking up the position. I remain convinced that Stuart would not have resigned had he felt he could achieve what he set out to do.

 

Getting invloved and changing things from within does not work. While you have one or two people who refuse to entartain the views of others because they are too arrogant to accept that they are wrong in what they are doing, no one else gets a look in. I once got involved with some of these people to try to help sea angling, but quickly realised that they were not representative of the countrys sea anglers and were only interested in their own agendas. In my opinion, one or two of the main players are treacherous and devious - and I don't trust them. I would never, and will never, get involved with these people again.

 

Wayne sits on the Marine Committee and, as my local representative, reports back to me and any other interested anglers that he represents. He also takes the views and ideas of the anglers he represents forward to the committee. That's exactly how it should be. Except with the Angling Trust, it isn't as simple as that. Wayne put forward a proposal at his first committee meeting that was much needed and would have addressed many of the problems caused by the old NFSA, SACN and BASS. The proposal was to disband the Angling Trust Marine Conservation Group, (which was, and still is, just the old NFSA conservation group with representation from BASS, SACN and National Mullet Club thrown in), which had done so much damage to the image of sea angling representation; and advertise the vacant positions in all the angling media and on all the angling forums. This would have given the AT as wide a range as possoble to draw upon, for experience and knowledge, with which to shape Angling Trust policy. The Marine Committee, I am told, voted unanimously in favour of this proposal, but then nothing happened. You still have the same old NFSA, SACN and BASS and National Mullet Club faces representing us. And the same old agendas are still being pushed by the Angling rust as were being pushed by the NFSA, not least of which is the disastrous RSA strategy.

 

I have been involved with these people, and so has Wayne. With respect, Reg, you haven't. But, I can see from what you write that you've been fed a very healthy portion of bull**** and that you have swallowed most of it. Anyway, moving on..........

 

I'm sorry to hear that your fishing isn't too good at the moment. Plenty of people around the country are experiencing the best fishing they've had for years. So the, "We're all doomed if we don't join the Angling Trust", scenario isn't realistic. Things change over the years and marks that used to fish well might not necessarily fish well now. By the same token, there could be fish in places that there never used to be. I don't think anyone fishing the same marks for years and years has ever experienced consistently good fishing, all the time. To me, it seems to go in cylcles. But assuming that the fishing in your part of the world is terrible, what do you think is going to improve it? Forget the Angling Trust 'strategy', or manifesto. It's just words. Pretty words won't improve your fishing. Nor will false promises, nor will bull****, and nor will your Angling Trust membership card. So, what can the Angling Trust do for sea anglers? Well, they can fight to make sure that you are still allowed to fish your marks when the fishing does become good again. They can also fight to make sure that you are allowed to fish unrestricted and unhindered by heaps of regulations and rules. They can also fight to make sure you retain the right to take the fish you catch home to eat. But are they doing that? Are they f***. The Angling Trust are doing more to take those rights away from you than they are doing to protect them. Just look at the EA fish removal byelaws. The Angling Trust assisted throughout the process. Did they ask you what thought, though? No, of course not. That's because they are not interested what you think. They have their one or two 'experts' that they call upon to make decision like that on our behalf. Unfortunately for sea anglers, these 'experts' are just the same old faces who dropped us in the sh*t in the first place.

 

The only thing that is 'tearing our sport apart', as you put it, is the people negotiating away our existing rights.

 

And the Angling Trust doesn't govern anything. Sea fisheries committees have powers out to 6 nautical miles, as do the EA, and Defra have control out to 12 miles.

Edited by Steve Coppolo

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

 

Don't drink and drive.

 

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Morning Reg, been away off the 12 mile limit, so havn't had time to comment on your comments. :) In the mean time do me a favour and give me the link to the A T strategy and it's responce regarding the cfp as time is short for me at the mo i can read all of them at once this evening. Many thanks. One question on this post, yes i appreciate the A T have put themselves in the firing line, however, i haven't seen any teeth bared in the last year. Is this the laid back approach that is going to build upto something that we can all applaude. For example, the whole of the cfp has been a disaster as far as all are concerned. the E U are the instigators of this and it will take them all till 13 to have something else on the table to try and get something to work in the long term. You see where i'm coming from on this. Therefore it's not fit for purpose, nor are they, waste oe time, effort and money after all these years. So to bare some teeth, don't you think the A T could be lobbying the government to remove our country from this mess. Is that contained in the A T's responce?

 

Hi Barry,

 

I have asked Mike Heylin and the admin team to forward me the direct links so I can put them on here. If you can somehow give me an email address I can send them to you right now, as I have got copies, kindly emailed to me previously by Mike Heylin. When you look at the information you will find all the points you have issues with.

 

I totally agree with you, the AT should lobby the Government to remove our country from this mess. Whether it will do any good, probably not because Huw Irranca-Davies, our Fisheries Minister, believes that HIS Government should hand over the ownership and management of OUR UK fish stocks to the commercial fishermen and their organizations. Think this is crazy, thats is exactly what Steve Coppollo suggested in the December issue of BFM. Scrap Quota systems and let the market dictate the number of days at sea. Give responsibility to the fishermen............the same fishermen that carry out the black market trade, that are continuosly caught illegally fishing of our coasts, that rip up our sea beds, that massacre our fish stocks and destroy our spawning grounds. NO WAY, we have had fourty years of that already thats why we are in the mess we are in now.

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To which sea angling magazines are you referring to Reg? Because I get all of them here in the office and I haven't seen anything from the AT in them. Yes, I have gotten bitter, but that's purely out of frustration with how the AT are conducting themselves. I can't believe that they have turned down a very genuine offer of free editorial every month for an entire year. Apart from the 2-pager that Mark wrote, that's been about the extent of contact. Why haven't they pushed Mel and Barney to get space in SA and TSF as well? There are only two reasons for this Reg - either the AT don't want grass roots sea anglers to know their business, or they just can't be bothered!

 

Don't come back with 'they're all really busy and don't have time'. I've heard that before on numerous occasions. The fact is, communication with members and prospective members is by far and away the most important thing for the AT right now. It should be top of their agenda. Why? Because if you haven't got the backing of the recreational sea anglers that you're trying to represent then you're halfway to losing the battle before you start!

 

My views are not necessarily the views of Boat Fishing Monthly magazine. Yes, I am the editor, but like I said in my previous post I am duty bound to give everyone a level platform to voice their opinions. The sheer lack of response from the AT on various forums also rings alarm bells. Why doesn't the AT post on threads and set the record straight on various issues if everyone out there is getting it wrong?

There's much more to this than meets the eye. One can't help but be wary of the whole situation. If someone was badmouthing me on a forum or in a magazine, and had got the wrong end of the stick, I would be quick to react (not retaliate) and voice my opinion to set the record straight.

The AT only have themselves to blame as far as my opinion of them goes. I've tried time and time again (way before I became bitter about the situation) to offer my support to the AT, including the use of BFM as a marketing tool, but the very public lack of response and interest has swayed me to think that something's not right in the AT camp! I can't put it clearer than that. WHY does/ did the Angling Trust NOT WANT TO PROMOTE THEMSELVES TO BOAT ANGLERS FOR FREE?

If you can answer that one for me Reg, I would sleep better at night! Ignore the past three or four months as far as I am concerned - I'm talking about the first 8 months of the AT's existence.

 

Dave,

 

I think I must of misunderstood your question on the AT advertising. I was reffering to the full page campaign add, the one that says: The average angler spends £670 a year on fishing......the best anglers spend £20 more. Sorry

 

Yes, I agree with you on this subject, the AT has made a mess of communication, why, I don't know Dave, I'm not an AT rep. But Dave, you are missing the point of my argument so I shall say it again.

 

You are in a position where everyday anglers who subscribe to the BFM, like me, want to see an editor who does not resort to childish stupid, sarcastic comments on a forum, if thats what you really think of anglers, do yourself a favour and keep it to yourself. You know what I would of said if I were in your shoes?

 

Something like this,

 

Well Reg, I had a moment of lapse and got caught up in the friendly banter on this forum, Sorry mate.

 

I am an angler Dave, just like you, friendly banter is at the very heart of all friendships, at the very heart of all anglers, we take the mick out of people behind their backs, sometimes to their face if they know the person realizes it to be a joke. Your an angler Dave, but you are also an editor of a national magazine, try to remember that.

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Hello Reg

Just another quick one to address one or two of the points you are attempting to make.

 

First, how could I have walked away from the Angling Trust when I was never involved with it in the first place? I joined, as an ordinary member, when Stuart McPherson became the Marine Director, (taking over from the old NFSA chairman, Richard Ferre), and Wayne McCully became my local AT regional representative. Things were looking promising, especially after being assured by Mark Lloyd that the Angling Trust knew that the old NFSA bods were bad news and would be 'making changes' at the earliest opportunity. Well, that has turned out to be pie in the sky. Stuart was intent on making necessary changes from within the Angling Trust, but resigned shortly after taking up the position. I remain convinced that Stuart would not have resigned had he felt he could achieve what he set out to do.

 

Getting invloved and changing things from within does not work. While you have one or two people who refuse to entartain the views of others because they are too arrogant to accept that they are wrong in what they are doing, no one else gets a look in. I once got involved with some of these people to try to help sea angling, but quickly realised that they were not representative of the countrys sea anglers and were only interested in their own agendas. In my opinion, one or two of the main players are treacherous and devious - and I don't trust them. I would never, and will never, get involved with these people again.

 

Wayne sits on the Marine Committee and, as my local representative, reports back to me and any other interested anglers that he represents. He also takes the views and ideas of the anglers he represents forward to the committee. That's exactly how it should be. Except with the Angling Trust, it isn't as simple as that. Wayne put forward a proposal at his first committee meeting that was much needed and would have addressed many of the problems caused by the old NFSA, SACN and BASS. The proposal was to disband the Angling Trust Marine Conservation Group, (which was, and still is, just the old NFSA conservation group with representation from BASS, SACN and National Mullet Club thrown in), which had done so much damage to the image of sea angling representation; and advertise the vacant positions in all the angling media and on all the angling forums. This would have given the AT as wide a range as possoble to draw upon, for experience and knowledge, with which to shape Angling Trust policy. The Marine Committee, I am told, voted unanimously in favour of this proposal, but then nothing happened. You still have the same old NFSA, SACN and BASS and National Mullet Club faces representing us. And the same old agendas are still being pushed by the Angling rust as were being pushed by the NFSA, not least of which is the disastrous RSA strategy.

 

I have been involved with these people, and so has Wayne. With respect, Reg, you haven't. But, I can see from what you write that you've been fed a very healthy portion of bull**** and that you have swallowed most of it. Anyway, moving on..........

 

I'm sorry to hear that your fishing isn't too good at the moment. Plenty of people around the country are experiencing the best fishing they've had for years. So the, "We're all doomed if we don't join the Angling Trust", scenario isn't realistic. Things change over the years and marks that used to fish well might not necessarily fish well now. By the same token, there could be fish in places that there never used to be. I don't think anyone fishing the same marks for years and years has ever experienced consistently good fishing, all the time. To me, it seems to go in cylcles. But assuming that the fishing in your part of the world is terrible, what do you think is going to improve it? Forget the Angling Trust 'strategy', or manifesto. It's just words. Pretty words won't improve your fishing. Nor will false promises, nor will bull****, and nor will your Angling Trust membership card. So, what can the Angling Trust do for sea anglers? Well, they can fight to make sure that you are still allowed to fish your marks when the fishing does become good again. They can also fight to make sure that you are allowed to fish unrestricted and unhindered by heaps of regulations and rules. They can also fight to make sure you retain the right to take the fish you catch home to eat. But are they doing that? Are they f***. The Angling Trust are doing more to take those rights away from you than they are doing to protect them. Just look at the EA fish removal byelaws. The Angling Trust assisted throughout the process. Did they ask you what thought, though? No, of course not. That's because they are not interested what you think. They have their one or two 'experts' that they call upon to make decision like that on our behalf. Unfortunately for sea anglers, these 'experts' are just the same old faces who dropped us in the sh*t in the first place.

 

The only thing that is 'tearing our sport apart', as you put it, is the people negotiating away our existing rights.

 

And the Angling Trust doesn't govern anything. Sea fisheries committees have powers out to 6 nautical miles, as do the EA, and Defra have control out to 12 miles.

 

 

Steve, some of the things you write are good, not great, but good and show many hours of painstaking researce. You can be a reliable form of information. However, some other things you write like this post is total and utter nonsense.

 

When ever someone disagrees with you, you come back with You haven't got a clue, go away and researce some more, you have been fed Bull**** and you have swallowed most of it! Come back when you know something. Evidence is right here in your post and spread all over the AT forum. You never come up with a possible solution to a problem, you push away criticisum with contempt and lies to hide your lack of answers.

 

So you think changing things from within never works, vulgar criticism NEVER works Steve. In your opinion, Wayne is totally wasting his time then, I hope Wayne doesn't think that. If changing things from within doesn't work, why waste your breath on the AT forum, to attack from within thats why Steve. You accuse people of being too arrogant to accept they are wrong, are you talking about yourself Steve. Why are all these people and organizations wrong and you are right. Could it be that the majority of anglers want representation, a voice, a better sport.

 

The anglers on this forum respect you, as I once did, I truly hope their respect is not wasted. So I am going to correct you on some things if I may Steve.

 

The AT does not support the RSA Strategy, Bags Limits, Sea Rod Licence, if you look at the AT Strategy you will see the truth. Coming back with, forget the AT Strategy, Manifesto, its just words, is a weak response Steve and one that you cannot back-up. Where is your strategy Steve, how are you going to get the members of this forum, out this mess we are in. Blame the AT for everything and do nothing!

 

The only time you came up with an answer to solve a problem was the alternative to the CFP. What was your policy, ban the commercial quota and give power of management to the commercial fleets. I cannot believe any angler will agree with that Steve.

 

There has to be a time when honesty and reality is the only way forward. There may well be a time when a sea rod licence is needed, as much as every sea angler hates the idea, someone has to police our seas if we are to improve our fish stocks. There may even be a time when we have to suffer bags limits, catch and release policies, who really knows, if we wait much longer and do nothing this might happen sooner rather than later. We already know this deep down, but we cannot bring ourselves to say it. Our unified aim, and when I mean unified aim, I refer to real dedicated sea anglers, is to make absolutely sure that we have got something to protect first. That can only be achieved with a governing body, our Angling Trust.

 

Like it or not Steve, our Government will only talk to the Angling Trust, so providing weak information that is detremental to the AT, to these guys, makes them feel that maybe they should not join, it is like asking them to throw away their sport. You should be telling these guys to join and protest against everything that is wrong within the AT, some members of the NFSA. Maybe then the board will listen and change things FROM WITHIN.

 

You say the fishing is great, some people are having the best fishing in years, this is another one of your quick responses when you have no way of refuting the facts. There may well be one or two areas that have had a better year than last year, but none are having better years than ten years ago Steve, NONE. We are losing our sport and we have to do something about it now.

 

Am I wrong again Steve, are all the experts wrong Steve, are there plenty of fish in the see. Are you too arrogant to admit that you are wrong Steve. Where are the 30lb Cods Steve, where are the 15lb Bass Steve, Where are the 4lb Sole Steve, the 30lb Turbots, the 30lb Blonde Rays, 15lb Spurdogs, 6lb Bream. They are scattered in ones and twos across the country, we are losing the fight and you want us to do nothing! Before you come back and say they are localised due to their habitat, Rubbish......... they are not even localised Steve and nor are the main populations because they don't have a chance to spawn.

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