Will the new proposed legislation stop fish theft?

[Elton]

But those eels come from the same stocks....as commercially caught elvers bred on and adult eels....that anglers will be banned from catching!

 

That's my point exactly

[Jeffwill]

The new laws are a reaction to anglers complaining about Eastern European anglers taking and eating fish. Its been plastered all over the angling press for a couple of years.

 

The E.A. needed new Laws to impower bailiffs and the police when they came across such situations..... and as demanded by the angling fraternity...there always was a grey area in Law when fishing rivers as the fish moved up and down rivers and therefore belonged to nobody.

 

The old Laws needed tightening up. I applaud the E.A but you cant have it both ways, stopping Eastern Europeans (the ones who pay for licences) but then allowing British anglers to take fish! Its hypocritical.

 

Anglers moaned about fish being taken and now the E.A. have acted but a few still moan because they cant take the odd one for the pot. Thankfully these anglers are in the minority generally, though they will shout a bit louder to make up for that.

 

The big picture is that avian and mammal predators are taking more fish by factor's of 10's than Eastern Europeans but they dont put them into plastic carrier bags

[Dick Dastardly]

The E.A. needed new Laws to empower bailiffs and the police when they came across such situations..... and as demanded by the angling fraternity...there always was a grey area in Law when fishing rivers as the fish moved up and down rivers and therefore belonged to nobody.

 

The old Laws needed tightening up.

 

The "old" laws did vary a bit from region to region admittedly but they were quite clear. They were simply never enforced ......exactly the same as these new ones wont be. Doesn't matter how much you "empower the Police or bailiffs if there is simply not enough of them on the bank side.

 

It was simply a "being seen to do something" exercise in reply to the supposed Eastern European/Polish fish for the pot "problem" that the press has been riding for so long. It will achieve absolutely nothing.All it has done is waste god knows how much money that could have been spent on bailiffs actually enforcing the original rules.

 

As Jeff says though this to all intents and purposes has come about by the angling press's pushing,I wonder if they regard it as a sucsess?

 

My biggest worry though is what will be next?

[Dick Dastardly]

As with all this sillyness the biggest worry though is that the true issues are not addressed.

[Vagabond]

The new laws are a reaction to anglers complaining about Eastern European anglers taking and eating fish. Its been plastered all over the angling press for a couple of years.

Yep, the politics of envy - coupled with xenophobia.

 

The old Laws needed tightening up.

All you need are bag limits and slot limits - it works in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (all of whom have a fair number of immigrants - including those from Eastern Europe)

 

Iyou cant have it both ways, stopping Eastern Europeans (the ones who pay for licences) but then allowing British anglers to take fish! Its hypocritical.

That is red herring - ALL anglers (Welsh, Lithuanian, Polish, Matabele or whatever) who fish for the pot would be subject to the SAME bag limits and slot limits - as indeed they are already in those areas where such limits exist.

 

Anglers moaned about fish being taken and now the E.A. have acted

Yes, those anglers, the angling newspapers that orchestrated the hysteria, and now the EA, all will have done angling a grave disservice

a few still moan because they cant take the odd one for the pot. Thankfully these anglers are in the minority generally, though they will shout a bit louder to make up for that.

Lets hope they will shout long and loud, .(..and they are far from a minority on this forum I am proud to say) because, far from being moaners, they are showing a bit more perspicacity than those wanting to ban fishing for the pot.

 

It seems to have escaped your notice that if you surrender the right to catch fish to eat, then in the eyes of the chattering classes (who, like it or not, have a huge and disproportionate influence on the way this country is run) you have no reason to fish at all. "Catch in order to eat" they understand - as they come from a game-fishing ethos. "Catch in order to release" has no logic as a reason for fishing, and the abolitionists would make mincemeat of that argument - as they already have in Germany where catch and release is banned. (do a search of past threads if you are unaware of that)

 

The big picture is that avian and mammal predators are taking more fish by factor's of 10's than Eastern Europeans

Well there I will agree with you - and that "big picture" puts this xenophobic hysteria about fishing for the pot into its true perspective. Edited January 2, 2010 by Vagabond

[Steve Coppolo]

Yep, the politics of envy - coupled with xenophobia.

 

All you need are bag limits and slot limits - it works in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (all of whom have a fair number of immigrants - including those from Eastern Europe)

 

That is red herring - ALL anglers (Welsh, Lithuanian, Polish, Matabele or whatever) who fish for the pot would be subject to the SAME bag limits and slot limits - as indeed they are already in those areas where such limits exist.

 

Yes, those anglers, the angling newspapers that orchestrated the hysteria, and now the EA, all will have done angling a grave disservice

Lets hope they will shout long and loud, .(..and they are far from a minority on this forum I am proud to say) because, far from being moaners, they are showing a bit more perspicacity than those wanting to ban fishing for the pot.

 

It seems to have escaped your notice that if you surrender the right to catch fish to eat, then in the eyes of the chattering classes (who, like it or not, have a huge and disproportionate influence on the way this country is run) you have no reason to fish at all. "Catch in order to eat" they understand - as they come from a game-fishing ethos. "Catch in order to release" has no logic as a reason for fishing, and the abolitionists would make mincemeat of that argument - as they already have in Germany where catch and release is banned. (do a search of past threads if you are unaware of that)

 

Well there I will agree with you - and that "big picture" puts this xenophobic hysteria about fishing for the pot into its true perspective.

 

First class post. One of the best I've read.

[Dick Dastardly]

So Jeff (or/and anyone else who thinks the "new" laws are a great thing) what as an angler do you exactly think these "new" laws will actually do for your fishing?

 

Im not being argumentitive but genuinely would like to know.

Edited January 2, 2010 by BUDGIE

[Dick Dastardly]

Anyone who is a regular on other course sites care to say how the members there have veiwed this? Im interested as it seems that most on here are like minded or (I really hope not) if they do disagree are not confident/scared to voice their opinions to the contary.

[watatoad]

Hi BUDGIE and everyone,

 

I think almost everyone agrees this will do nothing to stop fish theft

 

My personal thoughts and opinions

 

I am on several sites and I would say almost everyone feels the same standard knee jerk reaction to hyped up journalism, another law. rule. regulation to control people with.

 

My personal thoughts and opinions follow

 

We already have too many rules and regulations and too much government involvement in daily life

 

The original firearms act was brought in on a temporary law because they feared a Russian style revolution

 

They banned handguns from licensed owners and handgun crime is climbing constantly

 

The 70 mph speed limit was a temporary law brought into save petrol during a fuel crisis funny its never been revoked

 

The DDA was brought in where only commonsense was needed

 

Political Correctness was brought in because they could not think what else to do that week

 

In my opinion it just looks to me to be a way to keep lawyers, police, barristers, judges and rule makers in their jobs and make a bit of revenue for the government on the side

 

I have a crazy theory somewhere there is a little department or group who's only purpose and pleasure is to restrict law abiding people and try to turn them into law breaking people

 

The ordinary person in the UK has had more restrictions put on them and rights taken away from them in the past 10 or so years than it has in the past 1000 years

 

Yet are our streets safe

 

Are we treated equally

 

Is our health service wonderful

 

Are our policemen and women excellent and fair minded

 

Are our policemen and women bogged down in paperwork

 

Do our policemen and women have their hands tied when dealing with alleged criminals

 

Are all our emergency services second to none

 

Do we have one of the best and a totally equal education system

 

Perhaps they secretly want a Russian or Chinese style revolution because a point must come when people say stop enough is enough and we now have too many unconsidered, badly advised or poorly thought out laws, rules and regulations

 

With all the above how can we as anglers expect anything other than poorly considered and thought out rules and regulations and unless we the ordinary anglers who pay their license money expect any better or different treatment than anyone else

 

I think our only hope as anglers is if we really care to start up an open organization with no fees and no paid organizing people to run polls on here of our many and varied personal fears and hopes and simply forward the results of them to the authorities and with what is it 18,000 plus members of this site we do represent a considerable portion of legally licensed anglers possibly more then any of the so called 'recognized organization'.

 

HEHEHE...people power we used to call it back in the 60's...hehehe

 

But perhaps not such a crazy idea

 

Anyone is free to copy this post only in its complete form because at the moment I believe I still have freedom of thought I am not so sure of freedom of speech in the UK though

[watatoad]

I am puzzled though. I keep hearing of fish thefts but I never hear of thieves being caught and prosecuted.

 

I cannot help but wonder if there really are fish thefts on such a massive scale as is implied for example.

 

I recently joined a club I explained I was limited in places I could comfortably walk to and I have received so much help and great advice from members of the club I felt quite emotional and honoured to be a member of the club.

 

However one weir pool I was directed to I was advised I would be lucky to catch more than a few small Roach as nothing much had been caught there for a couple of years.

 

So without much expectation I trolled off to the said pool for a couple of hours float fishing and averaged 1 fish every 2 to 3 minutes minimum weight was 2lb 2oz maximum weight was 3lb 4oz all Roach wonderful just first time at the pool lucky I guess.

 

The next time I went to the same pool all four flood gates were open and although I gave the only non white water a go I had my first ever blank day.

 

The next time at the same spot no Roach, 20 or so chub but nothing over 1lb and mostly about the 8oz range until I caught a 3lb 6oz Perch.

 

Incidentally I did not use a keepnet as I was not in a match although I have photos of many of them but having fished the same weir pool about 8 times I have noticed very few other anglers catch anything but I have no idea why. I have watched about a dozen (12) or so fish the pool almost all legering and many different baits everyone has drawn a blank.

 

All the incidents, advice and comments above make me wonder if fish may have become far more active roaming around than I had ever given thought to perhaps not migratory but much more traveled I don't know but it is funny. There are cormorants and kingfishers, dogs are always diving in and out to retrieve balls and sticks thrown by their owners plus canoeists just some of the joys of pleasure fishing in a shared environment but none of these activities upset the fishing, I have also heard there are otters but I have not seen one there yet.

 

One other angler asked me "How do you keep catching fish and me and my mates don't." So I showed him my magic trick, picking up a single white maggot I said to it "Don't be lazy get out there and catch me a bl***y Roach." he and I laughed so much I nearly missed the bite about a minute later.hehehe So if you ever hear an angler talking to his maggots blame me...hehehe

 

All the above are incidents that have happened since September 2009, so as I rate myself as an average angler the only thing I can come up with is the fish are more mobile than we generally give credit to and I am just a lucky angler.

 

Another spot on the Suffolk Stour a few years ago generally regarded as a hot spot for matches everyone was struggling to catch I was not in the match but was fishing about 70 odd yards away upstream again it was a case of Roach with the odd dace and chub non stop nothing wildly exciting just constant nothing over 2lb. It was this that first made me wonder about the movements of fish and begin to consider that they are far more traveled than any of us (well me at least) could imagine.

 

I have also been wondering lately with so much building on flood plains if the fish are finding underground water courses.

 

Stoke Newington London many years ago the council altered the course of a river in Clissold Park a few years after Church Street Stoke Newington had great holes appear in it a bus even fell into one of the holes, they said it was caused by the river just changing the course the council wanted it to go and going underground I remember my uncle saying there were loads of fish in the holes just makes me wonder.