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Will the new proposed legislation stop fish theft?


Worms

Will the proposed new legislation regarding the taking of coarse fish prevent fish theft?  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think that bringing in the proposed ban on taking coarse fish with limited exceptions for pike grayling and livebait will prevent fish theft?

    • Yes
      3
    • No
      35


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An assumption Bob Bradford and my apologies if it wasn't you.

 

How will the new regs prevent fish theft?

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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I think the new proposals, should they become law, and I think they will, are not perfect, but are a huge step in the right direction, the old by-laws are/were a bloody shambles, I defy anyone of you to produce a definitive list for the different regions without spending a great deal of time Googling the answers, the by-laws were/are all different depending on where you live, these new proposals clear up most of the grey areas, so in turn will help the EA to police and enforce our natural fish stocks, which in turn, will help the magistrates to pass the correct sentences.

 

I totally agree the issue regarding Eels , the EA need to stop commercial netting of this species NOW! banning anglers from taking them using only a rod and line is a nonsense, if the EA are serious, and wish to protect this increasingly endangered species, they have no alternative but to implement a blanket ban.

 

I would not rubbish the rest of the proposals because of this singular issue though, what I am going to do, is contact the Angling Trust and ask them to consult with the EA and review the proposals, if they refuse ,I will want to know why, I expect a full and comprehensive answer too.

I am a match angler .....not an anti-Christ!!!]

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I think the new proposals, should they become law, and I think they will, are not perfect, but are a huge step in the right direction, the old by-laws are/were a bloody shambles, I defy anyone of you to produce a definitive list for the different regions without spending a great deal of time Googling the answers, the by-laws were/are all different depending on where you live, these new proposals clear up most of the grey areas, so in turn will help the EA to police and enforce our natural fish stocks, which in turn, will help the magistrates to pass the correct sentences.

 

I totally agree the issue regarding Eels , the EA need to stop commercial netting of this species NOW! banning anglers from taking them using only a rod and line is a nonsense, if the EA are serious, and wish to protect this increasingly endangered species, they have no alternative but to implement a blanket ban.

 

I would not rubbish the rest of the proposals because of this singular issue though, what I am going to do, is contact the Angling Trust and ask them to consult with the EA and review the proposals, if they refuse ,I will want to know why, I expect a full and comprehensive answer too.

I agree that the old rules, varied as they were around the country needed updating. However, as has been pointed out on this forum by many, different rivers have differing species makeup, substrates, flow rates etc. Therefore a blanket rule is not going to affect all rivers the same.

 

If the new rules are aimed at protecting fish stocks by preventing fish theft I still can't see how this can be achieved without massive expenditure by the EA (for bailiffs) and of course the required police time and manpower to process all of the fish thieves.

 

The eel issue is in my opinion exactly the same as the coarse fish issue. Legitimate rod and line anglers aren't impacting on eel numbers, neither are they impacting on any other coarse fish, or game fish come to that. The principle is eactly the same. It is not the angler it is commercial pressure. The same for sea-fish, migratory fish and now coarse fish. Don't forget, the EA are targeting mass fish theft (presumably for stocking purposes) this is not anglers with rod and line!

 

If this goes through how long will it be before the same restrictions are placed on sea fishing? Catch and release only because some holiday makers leave bags of mackerel decaying on the harbour, or cod/plaice/dogfish are becoming endangered by commercial mis-management?

 

This is a precedent and I think a badly thought out one that has been very poorly advertised by the EA (perhaps deliberately) and has been supported with attention to detail by groups, media and others that don't fish for food but who fish or use angling for money!

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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Im a bit torn on what you say Bob. Yes there was a lot of confusion caused by the regional variations but as Worms mentioned there was an obvious reason for them Also (sorry for banging the same old drum again!) when the Rod Licence was regional and had the Regional rule variations wrote on the back of it all confussion was avoided!

 

I just fail to see why something so simple as issuing the rules with a licence doesnt happen? Before any law can be enforced/policed surely the "law makers" have a right as well as it just being common sense to let people know these rules? What is so hard about it?

 

The second point (sorry but once again!) is why bother even having rules if people are both unaware of them and they are poorly (at best) policed?

 

Anyone ever contacted either the EA or tried to get a "representitive body" about these simple things? If so I would be interested in hearing the reply.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Hi Budgie, I hope you are keeping well mate, I have asked Mark Lloyd CEO of the Angling Trust several pertinent questions on these proposals, like, how the EA are going to police these properly etc, and this is one area where the Trust will prove it's worth, by putting pressure on the EA to deliver a proper service for our licence money, anglers as individuals simply cannot do this, but enough of the salesman in me, I will relate to you a true account of the difficulty's of policing conflicting rules and by-laws.

 

Two summers ago I volunteered to club bailiff for Bungay Cherry Tree AC, my beat was the Dunburgh stretch of river just outside Beccles in Suffolk, this stretch was being targeted by Eastern Europeans, catching, killing and eating the natural fish stocks, indiscriminatly and without a thought for conservation, now, my club insists on catch and release with no exceptions, so within a couple of weeks of diligent bailiffing by me, and dispite the usual "no speak English" and being heavily out numbered I managed to educate the vast majority, on the face of it things improved, and club members could fish Dunburgh and get value for their membership money and rod licence fee.

 

But, and here is the rub, I only had powers on the part of the river that was controlled by the club, up to the boat house to be precise, beyond this point, it is free fishing, the Eastern Europeans discovered this fact, and for the rest of the summer, camped out en mass and severly depleated the natural fish stocks, we got the EA down ther ( after a bit of persuation from me) and they checked some for rod licences on a surprise visit, no-one was breaking the law to my knowledge, except for the filthy rubbish deposited on the river bank from B-B-Qs etc, it could not be proven conclusivly who left it of course!

 

That part of the river is now severely depleted of natural fish stocks, fish swim, and they do not know the difference between a catch and release area and a take two for the pot area, 8-10 anglers taking two for the pot all summer has had a devastating effect, to the point where the Eastern Europeans have moved elsewhere!!!

 

So now my club have a lovely stretch of river paid for by it's members............but with very low remaining natural fish stocks, if you were the club secretary, how would you encourage renewal of memberships or even new memberships for that stretch of river? how who you teach young anglers to fish a water where you get no bites? the club has a healthy junior section but they will learn nothing fishing that part of the Waveney mate.

 

Now, with the proposed blanket ban of the taking of fish, the EA have no excuses, all of the onus is on them to deliver a proper service and Mark Lloyd has assured me the AnglingTrust will do everything in it's power to pressure them to this end.

I agree it is a huge compromise for anglers of an older generation, giving up what they consider to be their right, but times have changed and there are just too many other threats to natural fish stocks to allow the taking of two for the pot to continue, this is just a small piece of the jigsaw to ensure future generations of anglers, have fish to fish for on our rivers.......my opinion of course!

I am a match angler .....not an anti-Christ!!!]

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I'm not to bad Bob hope all is well with you as well.

 

I can understand your frustration re the bailiffing incident. It once again shows my point about insufficient bailifing/enforcement of the rules by the EA. I will wait to see what the AT actually does/achieves as as you know I'm not a supporter of them and have serious doubts.

 

I think the AT would have been better off if they had tackled some of the real basic (and seemingly easier to achieve) issues first.Things like the issuing of copies of the rules etc.People like myself would have then seen something positive actually happen and also had a bit more faith that the organisation did understand the problems.

 

You still dont seem to grasp the real issue behind why a lot of us dont want to see an end of the right to take fish if we wish.Its nothing to do with anglers "of an older generation" actually wanting to take fish and eat them (all though there are so few who actually do so it makes no difference to stocks what so ever) It is about preserving the right to which in turn (IMO) helps preserve the right to fish full stop.Its often been argued and IMO is very true that for the majority of "Joe Public" (and thats whose hands the future of angling lies not anglers or anti-anglers) can understand catch to eat but not catch to release.

 

Its just another "nibble" out of angling's base. If there ever is a blanket ban on the taking /retaining of fish then you can bet your arse the next line of attack will be to look into the survival rates of catch and release.This will no doubt be used as a scape goat for any suspected/claimed drop in fish stocks rather than (once again) dealing/looking for the real problems.

 

I'm concerned that other "politically active" anglers like your self and these bodies like the AT dont see this. or agree.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Just diverting a bit here, Watatoad, you wrote...

 

"So without much expectation I trolled off to the said pool for a couple of hours float fishing and averaged 1 fish every 2 to 3 minutes minimum weight was 2lb 2oz maximum weight was 3lb 4oz all Roach wonderful just first time at the pool lucky I guess."

 

That adds up to 40 fish over 2lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Hi Budgie, I hope you are keeping well mate, I have asked Mark Lloyd CEO of the Angling Trust several pertinent questions on these proposals, like, how the EA are going to police these properly etc, and this is one area where the Trust will prove it's worth, by putting pressure on the EA to deliver a proper service for our licence money, anglers as individuals simply cannot do this, but enough of the salesman in me, I will relate to you a true account of the difficulty's of policing conflicting rules and by-laws.

 

Two summers ago I volunteered to club bailiff for Bungay Cherry Tree AC, my beat was the Dunburgh stretch of river just outside Beccles in Suffolk, this stretch was being targeted by Eastern Europeans, catching, killing and eating the natural fish stocks, indiscriminatly and without a thought for conservation, now, my club insists on catch and release with no exceptions, so within a couple of weeks of diligent bailiffing by me, and dispite the usual "no speak English" and being heavily out numbered I managed to educate the vast majority, on the face of it things improved, and club members could fish Dunburgh and get value for their membership money and rod licence fee.

 

But, and here is the rub, I only had powers on the part of the river that was controlled by the club, up to the boat house to be precise, beyond this point, it is free fishing, the Eastern Europeans discovered this fact, and for the rest of the summer, camped out en mass and severly depleated the natural fish stocks, we got the EA down ther ( after a bit of persuation from me) and they checked some for rod licences on a surprise visit, no-one was breaking the law to my knowledge, except for the filthy rubbish deposited on the river bank from B-B-Qs etc, it could not be proven conclusivly who left it of course!

 

That part of the river is now severely depleted of natural fish stocks, fish swim, and they do not know the difference between a catch and release area and a take two for the pot area, 8-10 anglers taking two for the pot all summer has had a devastating effect, to the point where the Eastern Europeans have moved elsewhere!!!

 

So now my club have a lovely stretch of river paid for by it's members............but with very low remaining natural fish stocks, if you were the club secretary, how would you encourage renewal of memberships or even new memberships for that stretch of river? how who you teach young anglers to fish a water where you get no bites? the club has a healthy junior section but they will learn nothing fishing that part of the Waveney mate.

 

Now, with the proposed blanket ban of the taking of fish, the EA have no excuses, all of the onus is on them to deliver a proper service and Mark Lloyd has assured me the AnglingTrust will do everything in it's power to pressure them to this end.

I agree it is a huge compromise for anglers of an older generation, giving up what they consider to be their right, but times have changed and there are just too many other threats to natural fish stocks to allow the taking of two for the pot to continue, this is just a small piece of the jigsaw to ensure future generations of anglers, have fish to fish for on our rivers.......my opinion of course!

Sorry Bob, but i just cant see how a blanket ban is the way forward.

 

Ive been fishing rivers for over 30 years and I've yet to see an Eastern European fishing and taking fish. Very few anglers i know have tried eating coarse fish and even less claim to regularly. The amount of coarse fish being taken must be way down on what was be taken 50+ years ago.

 

I accept that my experiences with Eastern Europeans my not be a true reflection of all rivers in England, but why a blanket ban which would question the ethic's of our sport?

 

For me regional laws to fit regional problems is a much better way. It just needs the EA to get off its butt, make them fit and enforce them.

 

Given the number of anglers i see fishing my local river in the closed season, in full view of the road and only a mile or two of EA office's. Its my view that the EA has no interest in policing anglers and all this blanket ban is really about is them trying to find away out of doing any policing at all.

 

A tiger does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep

 

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Yep, I did a while ago. I contacted Adrian Taylor (in charge of this fiasco) directly and asked the questions. His replies are in the thread.

 

I also asked the AT the same questions and got sweet FA back from them apart from bullshit masquerading as waffle......after the event!

 

Anyone ever contacted either the EA or tried to get a "representitive body" about these simple things? If so I would be interested in hearing the reply.

Yep, I did a while ago. I contacted Adrian Taylor (in charge of this fiasco) directly and asked the questions. His replies are in the thread.

 

I also asked the AT the same questions and got sweet FA back from them apart from bullshit masquerading as waffle......after the event!

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/helping...n-t2043811.html (sorry couldn't get the topic link to work!)

Edited by Worms

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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So Jeff (or/and anyone else who thinks the "new" laws are a great thing) what as an angler do you exactly think these "new" laws will actually do for your fishing?

 

Im not being argumentitive but genuinely would like to know.

 

Regarding "one for the pot", a big change in recent years is anglers moving away from fishing rivers to fishing commercials, which are all catch and release. Match angling generally is all catch and release. The governments E.A. has promoted catch and release for a number of years. The vast majority of anglers practise catch and release.

 

Regarding the public, some dont see the point in going fishing, that its boring and assume people do it for a cheap meal but I have explained the theory of catch and release to a few non anglers over the years and the theory (conserving fish stocks) has always been received very positively. They also appreciated that many anglers fish for the sport, the enjoyment, fresh air, countryside etc and dont have to "make a kill" to enjoy the day out.

 

I mentioned the above because the general public dont care about the welfare of coarse fish anyway - Ask them about their opinions on "taking one for the pot" or "catch and release?" The majority would never have heard or thought about it and barely know the names of any coarse fish neither.

 

Will the new rules improve my angling? In theory yes, in practice we will have to wait and see though probably not. In Wales there are just 6 bailiffs covering ALL the rivers...they concentrate on the game fish rivers with the bigger cash revenues....enough said.

 

What really concerns me is the bigger picture - that anything that heavily predates on fish from our rivers, ponds, canals, lakes, should be closely monitored and reported on by independant experts without vested interests. Guaranteed this will never happen.

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