Jump to content

Otters Force Out Fishing Club


Elton

Recommended Posts

Hi Nick,

 

Seems to be a bit of prejudice on this thread against CARP..the old mud pigs :D

Hi Jeff, probably because it's always carp orientated people that keep moaning about otters!

 

Does not seem fair to me....totally blaming the fishery owners for otters scoffing their stock...for what is basically "being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Probably about as unfair as blaming otters for eating the freely available stock in the first place.

 

Or are all fisheries at risk?

It would seem not, it appears that the majority of fisheries/fish farms that have had problems (from the published articles) have been those with (abnormally?) high densities of fish. As you know, I fish rivers that have had otters and good fish stocks for years. The otter numbers have increased in the past 20 years or so and the fishing and the wildlife in general has got better. Mink numbers have declined as well! We'll have to agree to differ on the Wye ;)

 

Fencing is very expensive and grants should be means tested to enable struggling businesses (many family run) to qualify for a full grant. Its not just the huge cost of fencing in acres of water but the cost of replacing stock. Expecting fishery owners badly affected by otter predation to "match fund" tens of thousands of pounds for fencing is punitive. If its in the publics interest to reintroduce otters then the tax payer should adequately help out the fishery owners.

I disagree with that. One could compare it directly with landowners rearing pheasants that guns pay to shoot. The landowners realise that foxes, rats, stoats, weasels, polecats, feral cats, birds of prey etc. etc. are present and so fence their pens. Ok some are better at it than others and some trap and shoot every predator in sight, whether legal or not. It's an ongoing game. If you shoot a predator, you leave a niche for another to fill. Decent fencing and deterrents work better in the long term.

 

Regarding the take up of grants, I have been on the E.A. website and done various general searches for information on fencing grants....very poor information available for fishery owners...

almost misinformation. I can see why grant money is unclaimed.. Maybe the E.A. could email (at no cost) all fishery owners registered with them, advising of the availability of grants and the process for claiming it. The fishery owner will have to submit sufficient evidence of fish loss / predation to qualify. But then again, this is the same organisation that recently carried out a poll of anglers regarding new bylaws....yet no anglers on this forum were consulted. So its not just the fishery owners who "can't be arsed."

Well I'm sure we all know that the EA aren't perfect B) but yes advising fishery owners that weren't aware that otters might take their fish might be a starting point.......one would wonder what kind of fishery owner wasn't aware of such issues though!

 

Regarding the Law, my mate said, and I am just repeating hearsay again, that the contents of the sack had sharp claws (perfectly designed to grip large specimens).

No doubt about that, a veritable fish killing machine B)

 

PS When searching for fencing infor, came across the E.A.'s "water for wildlife" front page (guide for fishery owners affected by Otters) - picture of an angler holding an impressive carp and below it a picture of an otter. Someone in the E.A. has a sense of humour.

Makes a change!

 

Nick

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 162
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

And I can take you to numerous ponds where prior to carp there was abundant weed, now there is none, they've eaten it! Carp are a known problem in waters with species that use weed for egg-laying, they eat the weed and incidentally the eggs.

If anything it would be the other way round, i.e. carp ingest the weed when eating snails and other creatures within it.

In my entire life, I have never once witnessed a carp deliberately eating weed. I know of plenty of waters with terrible weed problems, which are absolutely stuffed with carp. I suggest that whatever makes weed disappear on some waters, it has absolutely nothing to do with the carp.

English as tuppence, changing yet changeless as canal water, nestling in green nowhere, armoured and effete, bold flag-bearer, lotus-fed Miss Havishambling, opsimath and eremite, feudal, still reactionary, Rawlinson End.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anything it would be the other way round, i.e. carp ingest the weed when eating snails and other creatures within it.

In my entire life, I have never once witnessed a carp deliberately eating weed. I know of plenty of waters with terrible weed problems, which are absolutely stuffed with carp. I suggest that whatever makes weed disappear on some waters, it has absolutely nothing to do with the carp.

Well, I could be wrong, I've just worked on a lot of waterbodies that have had fish 'problems'. Previously weed filled ponds have become sterile muddy holes after the introduction of carp. Whether they eat the weed intentionally or incidentally makes no odds, the weed ends up disappearing and most other waterlife that relies on the weed disappears as well. I have seen them uprooting plants however.

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The role of carp in the loss of submerged vegetation is well known - Brian Moss at Liverpool Uni did a load of work on this.

 

Carvalho and Moss (1995) examined the trophic status of 102 freshwater

SSSIs and found that 76 showed symptoms of eutrophication. In 36% of these, the prime cause was

attributed to mobilization of nutrients by common carp (Cyprinus carpio L.) and, to a lesser extent,

common bream (Abramis brama (L.)) and mechanical damage to plant communities by these fish (King

and Hunt, 1967; Crivelli, 1983; Wright and Phillips, 1992; Breukelaar et al., 1994). These fish species are

much prized by anglers though the common carp is not native to Britain. Furthermore, the threshold

biomass density of cyprinid fish associated with damage, particularly to macrophyte communities, is

relatively low (about 200 kg ha−1; Williams A, Moss B, unpublished experimental data) and much lower

than stocking densities for many fisheries.

 

clicky

 

Species which root in the bottom sediments release nutrients trapped there into the water column, where they feed the growth of algae. This, along with the suspended sediments, colours the water, cutting the light off and thus killing the submerged vegetation.

 

Carp can definitely do this - the key issue, though, is stocking density. All of the waters you see in the photo below contain carp, some of them bloody big carp, but only one water is heavily stocked with them. Can you tell which one?

 

puddle.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting stuff Steve.

It's also interesting that the best commercial carp feed (for survival rate) contains only vegetable matter and no animal or fish derivatives at all. As the latter is added growth rates increase but survival rate drops..........hmmm!

 

An interesting paper on carp food, both natural and commercial.

 

from this paper

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As Steve says, I'm sure it's just a case of stocking density. Plenty of lakes containing carp (often quite a few carp) are clear and weedy. Put too many in and it turns into mud soup. I used to fly fish a large old gravel pit for trout in Norfolk, which was crystal clear and weedy. There were never many trout in there (your 2-fish limit would take all day) and few other fish - some eels, perch, a handful of forgotten carp. The owners decided to stick a load of carp in and charge day tickets and within a season the water had lost its clarity. It's not a proper mud hole like Steve's photo (it wasn't really overstocked, it's a big lake) but there's no doubt that after the carp went in the water coloured up quite a lot and the weed started to die back, I assumed because of reduced light penetration.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

Link to comment
Share on other sites

best commercial carp feed (for survival rate) contains only vegetable matter and no animal or fish derivatives at all. As the latter is added growth rates increase but survival rate drops

 

A bit like comparing five-a-day keep-fit fanatics with hamburger-noshing overweight chavs. :)

 

..and to continue the analogy, if carp are given the choice, then like the chavs, they go for the meat. Even in the few ponds I know untouched by commerce or angling clubs, the carp would rather grub for bloodworms (uprooting plants in the process) than eat the waterweed.

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well if carp are chavs then I think otters should be made compulsory at all fisheries/fish farms B)

 

On a more serious note, I recall reading an article recently about a carp farm and they made the point that they only fed their carp on non-fish/meat food. Giving a slower more natural weight of growth. As you know I'm not a carp angler (might have a go at some wild commons this year) but my memory banks tell me that a couple of very popular baits for carp were, bread in crust and flake form and little par-boiled spuds (Crabtree again). Do many people use them these days?

Edited by Worms

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well if carp are chavs then I think otters should be made compulsory at all fisheries/fish farms B)

 

On a more serious note, I recall reading an article recently about a carp farm and they made the point that they only fed their carp on non-fish/meat food. Giving a slower more natural weight of growth. As you know I'm not a carp angler (might have a go at some wild commons this year) but my memory banks tell me that a couple of very popular baits for carp were, bread in crust and flake form and little par-boiled spuds (Crabtree again). Do many people use them these days?

 

 

Carp root around...digging up (and not eating) plants, thats why they're nick named "mud pigs."

 

Regarding the characteristics of people that use just bread and par boiled little spuds for their baits, I guess they are the type who cut up newspapers in strips and hang it next to the toilet :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carp root around...digging up (and not eating) plants, thats why they're nick named "mud pigs."

 

Regarding the characteristics of people that use just bread and par boiled little spuds for their baits, I guess they are the type who cut up newspapers in strips and hang it next to the toilet :P

 

Yeah, and eat fish. :D They're probably the type that use earth worms as bait, too!

 

I'm not a 'carp angler', but I'm an angler that has caught a lot of carp - and my most successful bait has been bread! I also catch a lot of Chub on it.

 

Wouldn't know what to do with a boilie. Feed the dog with them, I suppose.

Edited by Steve Coppolo

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

 

Don't drink and drive.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We and our partners use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences, repeat visits and to show you personalised advertisements. By clicking “I Agree”, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. However, you may visit Cookie Settings to provide a controlled consent.