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Otters Force Out Fishing Club


Elton

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There are lots of otters around here. I've seen two of them very clearly, and seen a half-eaten large chub on the bank of another local river (although I don't know if that was otters or not, but it probably was).

 

There are also lots of mink, and I've seen these many times, and I can tell the difference between the two.

 

So, these are 'my' fish being eaten, and I think that gives me the right to have an opinion.

 

The river fishing here is out of this world. I often have to pinch myself it's that good! The otters haven't 'eaten them all'. There is a natural balance, and everything is as it should be.

 

There are lots of small fish (roach, bleak, dace, perch, chub) and a fair few big fish (especially chub and perch, but also carp, pike, bream) too. The thing is, nobody seems to realise it, because (no surprise) they're all crammed into the lakes trying to catch carp with names. So, if an otter did eat a big carp or two from a certain (unfenced) lake, anglers would get a very unproportional view of what's actually going on.

 

The main feature of the local rivers with very healthy fish stocks and thriving otter populations is - no anglers 'improving' the waters by dumping tonnes of fish into them. Apart from a very few odd souls like me, no-one ever goes near them, and nature is allowed to be natural.

 

I guess that makes me not a real angler :P

 

Don't be ridiculous! Last time I went fishing I didn't catch anything! Why should anyone have to put up with not catching fish when we go fishing.

 

Its quite simple fish exist for us to catch, nothing else. Anything that gets in our way of this should be driven from this country. Don't let the hippies tell you its water extraction, pollution, constant cycles of floods and droughts, habitat destruction, or most ridiculous of all, over fishing!

 

When it comes down to it who wants to have to change their lifestyle or have to contribute to helping / changing things when we can blame someone / something else that means we can feel angry but don't have to actually do anything.

 

The reason you are the only person that fishes the waters you do is because the otters have eaten all the fish, the fact you THINK you catch any fish is proof of your insanity. Otters and fish cannot live together one otter will eat every fish in every water in a ten mile radius. It is well known that like any predators otters only catch and eat the most healthy fish, which are often the biggest! It stands to reason they would attack our carp fisheries, part of the reason of the reason the fish are so attractive is because we feed them and oxygenate the water to make they extra healthy. I don't know what they eat once they have removed every last scale and fin of their natural food but it must be bad!

 

Rich

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"So far, I have only seen two otters in the Nene valley, where I live".

 

By your own account, not exactly over run then ;)

 

"If your lake is over-stocked with fish, then it will attract predators. That is called nature trying to address an imbalance. If you don't like it, invest in anti-otter fencing. If not, relish the challenge of catching of fooling a wily fish in a lake with a natural stocking density."

 

Note to potential fishery owners - set up in Nene Valley - fences not required ;) I suppose the "wily fish" survivor has eyes in the back of its head to cover the "dead visual angle."

 

"Also, how many fish do you think an otter eats? The otter is a small mammal, about the size of my pet dog (a miniature schnauzer, Herbie. Now Herbie is a greedy little bugger, but let me assure you that he couldn't get through 1 lb of food a day".

 

The comparison of "small mammal" (for an Otter the largest member of the weasel family) - "miniature schnauzer" (not the smallest of dogs) - lb of food a day (lower end of average daily consumption)...good try. Nutritional science shows feeding your dog only on fish is unsound too... :P

 

"And that's if they arrive in the first place. Anglers everywhere are getting all worked up on this otter thing, but I'd wager that the vast majority of anglers in England have never seen an otter in the wild".

 

Only 2 in the Nene Valley so far and some anglers on this site seldom seeing Otters at all never mind regularly so must deduce they are inexperienced on otter predation :D

 

'The "problem" is not that otters eat fish, of course, but that they sometimes, apparently, attempt to eat big fish. Fish with names'.

 

Yes names like Carp, Barbel, Chub.....

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I keep chickens.

To keep my chickens safe from predators I built a fence around their pen.

Had I not built the fence I would not be surprised if the predators killed all my chickens.

But I did

and they don't.

As that bloody Meercat says

 

"simples" :D

Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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Glad to see you back Fenboy................saves me having to post a lot of the time!

 

Den Ive noticed with a lot of issues like this you end up seeing it as an attack on specimen hunters/carp anglers/specialist anglers. As "all of the above" in most cases I really don't think it is.It is more of a reference to the many,many "instant experts" that these areas attract/create.Or even more accurately the "deifying" of their quarry that is common (indeed an essential part of the "image") amongst such.

 

God I know I'm going to end up upsetting you again mate purely as I just cant put down exactly what I mean! please excuse me while I struggle to explain myself!

 

I know that even just one "known" fish can mean an awful lot to anglers and an awful lot financially to a fishery owner.For the fishery owner though at least its rational in that the loss of such fish is three fold-

 

1. The cost of the initial fish or more importantly the replacement of the fish.

 

2. The loss of "attraction" due to the "known fish" having gone.

 

3. Lastly but probably most important the "Otters have ate all the fish there" factor amongst anglers who aren't catching for whatever reason!

 

From the anglers perspective the loss of any fish is underlined by the selfish line of "if its dead I cant catch it" Although the real problem (in the specialist/barbel/carp scenario) is this deifying of the fish and it being "the done thing" to "I love carp/barbel/etc etc more than anyone else" thing that becomes almost hysterical.Any predation by man,furry creatures or other fish has always caused this.

 

I totally agree the "fencing fund" is ridiculous and even though (maybe even more so) some fisheries are commercially run businesses they should receive proper help.

 

Now another area where Dens seen red! People seem to be making quite broad statements re lots of very very different types of fisheries. Yes Ive seen plenty of carp muddied,weed destroyed ,in fact carp destroyed (or I suppose really the person who stocked them!) waters.Ive also seen plenty of others that are not! I know that Otters getting in established on one of the later could still result in a valuable specimen being killed but in the first case ie the small artificial,overstocked,mud hole then they will absolutely definitely trash it! A small river could be damaged far more easily than a big one eg the small narrow stretch of the Medway that once held the record barbel could have been destroyed in one feeding spell! where the River Severn could no doubt happily sustain a healthy population of both predators and prey.

 

I'm happy enough to see "the balance of nature" restored where mans hunting/trapping or ecological pressure has seen the demise of otters BUT I do have some worries.The main thing Ive said above is "different" and surely that's the key word? and the one that I feel a lot of the pro otter people (who many off are just as fanatical and blinded by their own selfishness as the anglers) will forget/ignore as well.

 

Careful thought must be given to where these animals are re introduced,appropriate control and funding for such must be considered and given.Yes I know that it can be argued and is true that the worst affected ie the Medway barbell situation and the small commercial match fishery etc are not natural but I don't see why they should suffer especially the business behind them?

 

My worries are non of the above will be considered as the only concern the "otters back" boys will have about fish is that there's enough to feed the furry creatures. The selfish,blinded,fanaticism thing again.

And now Im back full circle.I think that "our" own attitude needs to be balanced rather than being seen as totally anti fish predation.We might then have a chance of being heard and a bit of sense shown.

 

Lastly (and I doubt Ive still explained myself properly!) other "re introductions" have been mentioned. Fine if its mans direct effect that's caused their demise,fine if it can be done "properly",I'm not even that worried about the financial cost v end result issue but it really (surely?) depends on whether man did bring the situation about or whether it was simply just natural progression.Many forget that mans affect on nature is just as "natural" as any other animals.We are often put "outside" of this equation.

 

What would anglers views on re introducing Burbot be I wonder? Bet we would all be up for that? even though realistically it would be a bit daft as we don't even know why exactly they did disappear in the first place!

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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For me, it comes down to whether you think fishing should be more like hunting or more like farming. I want to catch wild fish that live and die in a natural environment - if you want to fish on a farm, that's fine too, but you'll have to fence it.

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Jeff you've inadvertently raised a very important point.

 

For the guy who has no otters he just cant see the problem The guy whose fishery is over run with them thinks guy A is off his rocker not worrying!

 

Guy B has only roach poles on his water and no Eastern European ones why is Guy A so paranoid,racist and nasty? Guy A is incensed that a fellow angler is prepared to let things go on like this as when he goes fishing all he sees is people putting fish in plastic bags!

 

Just two examples of many modern day "issues".

 

Why don't we accept the others observations/fears etc at face value and support them? Simply because over the years weve become hardened and jaundiced by all the over reacting and scaremongering that we see amongst anglers.So much to the stage that we are now probably ignoring some very serious issues.

 

If only we had a single unbiased body/source of information that would correctly research and assess such issues enabling us to know what is going on?

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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I look upon commercials as business e.g. money plus time and effort invested in the hope of a good return. Not as some commercial owners would like, which is to look upon them as a philanthropic gift to anglers.

 

If I run a shop and am plagued by creatures shoplifting I try to protect my investment, and I am allowed to spend as much as I like on various security measures.

 

Therefore if I run a commercial I should be allowed to protect my investment. Wait a minute I am, I am allowed to spend as much as I like installing a fence.

 

Back in the middle ages monks had carp ponds/lakes for food from what I have read these were overstocked but those Wiley monks kept reducing their overstocked ponds/lakes by eating the Carp perhaps the otters will be like those olden day monks and help in reducing unnatural overstocking.

 

Otters those pretty furry creatures roaming free are in today's UK as out of place as a sabre tooth tiger or a bear is.

 

After reading several scholarly articles I am pleased to say otters do eat crayfish and have natural enemies on land at least Bears, Eagles and Man. Den will also be pleased to hear that I can confirm the most favoured food of the otter is the eel...whoops there goes the eel population, another species for now more rapidly extinction, thanks to the re-introduction of the otter. However eels store pesticides in their bodies these pesticides (Organochlorine pesticide – now banned) in turn kills the otter. Otters are quite prone to the bioaccumulation of fat soluble pesticides, the affects of which may reduce breeding success and immune system function. Dog activity also upsets otters. I wonder what boilies will do to the otters. Maybe they will become the anabolic steroid for otters and we will soon see 6’ tall otters…blow that for a game of soldiers.

 

Maybe the commercials should have regular falconry days with eagles and leave it to nature and natural balance, plus they can charge people to watch a falconry exhibition. Possibly a win win situation. Now if they were sea otters maybe we could see killer whales appearing in commercials...hehehe that would take some specialist tackle to land a biggy.

 

Does nobody ever consider that to revert back to allow many almost extinct species to be re-establish especially after being artificially re-introduced we must also revert back to olden days and a greatly reduced population. The otter population declined because of mans progress and expansion most things which people want to conserve from buildings to plants, birds, animals, are in my opinion little more than a sad joke. An old building has evolved, developed and changed in many ways over the years to become what it is now. Yet stopping this natural evolution and development we want to preserve the building or whatever in a protective envelope, to do such is to deny man (or in this case a building) his/its natural evolution and development and to begin the downwards slide into decay. For if you stop progression you get stagnation from stagnation you get decay.

 

Those of you who consider many commercials are overstocked puddles, its o.k. I accept your right to your opinion.

 

Those of you who love to fish commercials in search of bigger and bigger fish, its o.k. I accept your right to your opinion.

 

I hope that any reading this will see I have really tried to look at both sides, I like otters and have enjoyed watching them where they have survived mans natural expansion, I am however totally against any unnatural introduction or re-introduction of any species into a natural environment. What do I think of commercials I look upon them in the same way I look upon an aquarium or garden pond. However I also believe they can serve an important need, in that they can reverse the decline in young anglers and get our youngsters away from their computers and games consuls and out of their bedrooms into the fresh air, maybe even getting them up early in the morning…hehehe. I also think measures should be required to prevent commercial stock getting into our rivers during times of flood.

From a spark a fire will flare up

English by birth, Cockney by the Grace of God

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I look upon commercials as business e.g. money plus time and effort invested in the hope of a good return. Not as some commercial owners would like, which is to look upon them as a philanthropic gift to anglers.

 

If I run a shop and am plagued by creatures shoplifting I try to protect my investment, and I am allowed to spend as much as I like on various security measures.

 

Therefore if I run a commercial I should be allowed to protect my investment. Wait a minute I am, I am allowed to spend as much as I like installing a fence.

 

I agree but despite my own personal hang ups about the fishery ethics of such I think as businesses they deserve to be helped out to protect their investment against any problems the re introduction of a species (which wasn't there when they set up in the first place) could bring them.

 

If you brought a garage on a busy road that was suddenly and unexpectedly made pedestrian only should you be expected to foot the entire bill for a new replacement access road? If you see what I mean?

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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I agree but despite my own personal hang ups about the fishery ethics of such I think as businesses they deserve to be helped out to protect their investment against any problems the re introduction of a species (which wasn't there when they set up in the first place) could bring them.

 

If you brought a garage on a busy road that was suddenly and unexpectedly made pedestrian only should you be expected to foot the entire bill for a new replacement access road? If you see what I mean?

 

I agree with reservations, the EA says funding is available, but are we to support every commercial venture or business anytime that business or venture suffers a problem? Just because the current UK government supported banks?

 

I have seen homeless people, freezing and starving pensioners, malnourished children, families barely surviving with children living well below the poverty level, families who are loosing their homes because they have been made redundant through no fault of their own, all in the Uk today. Success in business is seldom shared by the business owners with those in difficulties, the right to success comes hand in hand with the right to fail. Surely we are already supporting them with our custom.

 

There may be a loophole to claim against those who locally and unnaturally introduced the creatures. However if said creatures were introduced to the area prior to the commencement of the said business or commercial venture then it is a case of failure to correctly asses all the implications and the financial viability of said venture.

From a spark a fire will flare up

English by birth, Cockney by the Grace of God

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