Yet Another Angler Trying To Ban Livebaiting

[watatoad]

What I would support was a ban on taking livebaits from one water to use on another.

I have read that roach were introduced to Ireland by pike fishermen using live baits and considered an invasive species by some. Is that true?

 

I also suspect the Environment Agency is opposed to this practice for very good reasons...

 

Read your local and the national rules and regulations the introduction of fish into another water is already banned...As has already been stated on this THREAD by several others.

 

In 57 years of angling the most common reason I have come across of people not using livebait when fishing for Pike is that they are anglers who:

 

1: Don't know how to set up a livebait.

 

2: Wimps who don't really like handling live fish.

 

3: Anglers who are not really anglers they just go fishing to get away from their family.

 

4: So called anglers who oppose livebaiting yet enthusiastically support deadbaiting, are just gutless hypocrites, who by using once live deadbaits. Instead they try or pretend to duck out of the responsibility by getting the man at the factory to mass kill some fish for them.

 

6: Anglers who pretend to themselves that they are being GREEN, GOOD, KIND, MODERN, CONSERVATIONISTS, ECOLOGISTS, NATURE LOVERS, CONSIDERATE

 

What do I think?

 

Well I tend to refer to the ones I know as ROSE.

 

Legends in their own minds or lunchtimes. Without any thought or consideration for other anglers.

 

I have noticed with many THE LIGHTS ARE ON BUT NOBODY IS IN and to use the Australian expression THE ONLY WILDERNESS LEFT IS BETWEEN THE EARS OF A GREENIE

 

WAKEY! WAKEY Moving and transporting and introducing live fish into a different location is banned already by the rules and regulations already governing us anglers or have you never bothered to read the rules because you simply ignore them or disobey them already? As they do not fall into your GREENIE IDEOLOGY.

 

Wake up you would be members of the anti angling brigade or fraternity you are a minority and well outnumbered and soon you will be outgunned. You will be sitting at home knitting while your leader/boss/wife/partner barks orders at you and tells you what to do and how to do it and when to do it.

 

EDIT:

I take no prisoners when my sport / pastime / hobby is threatened.

 

I would suggest those making such comments better start getting their facts straight...funny how often emotive subjects are brought up by junior members or short term members. Who also don't even know the most basics. e.g. the rules and regulations already governing them. All it does is show the real anglers just how thick a bunch of morons you lot are. Yes I am educated enough and experienced enough and confident enough to respond to your childish prattle because I believe even you bunch have the right to be taught (especially about reality and respect for others).

 

END EDIT:

Edited May 15, 2010 by watatoad

[Dick Dastardly]

There has never been a proven case of either the spread of disease or trans location of a species that can be attributed to pike anglers or any of their practices. That is a FACT and not just the trotting out of old wives tales. I say that not as an angler but from a fishery management education.

 

That said it is most probable that both roach and chub have become established in Ireland through the actions of anglers.Pike anglers discarded/lost live baits? well maybe but still (biologically) improbable. By anglers wanting roach and chub in their waters? then certainly more feasible! The Irish angler gets up my nose a bit when they whine about us "English" bringing in roach and chub but at the same time leap at the chance to stick any old carp in any where they can!

 

The issue of Section 30 consent and the pike anglers live baits is really a totally different one to "should live baiting be banned" Ive found though that many (who want live baiting banned,often on purely emotive grounds) grab hold of this issue and use it for their own agenda.As such I wont go into (here any way) the real facts,my views etc on this.All I will say is that from the ecological point live baiting can be carried out both legally and safely. Legislation is all ready in place to allow this.

 

The real issue here is that people dont want to live bait themselves.Be this because they have issues with the ethics or simply cant be bothered to put in all the effort it requires to reap the rewards so begrudge others results is immaterial they all use the same old arguments! Let me list a few and give my take o this as a long time angler and live bait user.

 

1. Its cruel! I think the sticking in of hooks issue has all ready been mentioned by Grumpybum (who also nails a few other good points as well)

 

2 Its taking another anglers sport fish................

 

NO let me stop here I just cant be bothered please allow me to be lazy and copy and past something I wrote a long time ago and still support- It sums up my whole view on the issue

[essox_lucius]

notice the ppl kicking off are a part time piker and tackle shop owner ( prob been brainwashed by noddies) and a trout lad lol honestly they will never stop ppl livebaiting or other types of anglers bending rules

[Dick Dastardly]

For or against? Sadly this decision is made by a lot of people on purely emotive and sentimental reasons. It is therefore very hard to reason with anti live baiters as they refuse to see the facts. Many don’t actually fish for predators so in practical terms it doesn’t affect them. They use old clichéd pseudo scientific arguments to try and back up their emotional argument. As I said very hard to reason using hard facts against emotion.

 

A lot of people say that live baiting is cruel because you are sticking hooks into a live fish. I thought that was what we do every time we catch a fish? The whole business of whether fish feel pain or not is an often argued subject with many scientific studies having been carried out. Sadly none of these seem to be in agreement! The issue of is it cruel or not is one that each angler has to personally decide for them self, much as you have to make your decision in the early days of your angling career as to whether angling or not is cruel. This is a personal choice and one which I respect each individuals choice. If live baiting is not for you then fine but please also respect the choice of others who wish to do so. For me there is no difference in casting out and sticking a hook in a fish and sticking a hook in a fish then casting out.

 

Many say that they think it would be a good idea for angling to ban live baiting as it would appease the antis. I feel by doing this we would be simply falling into their hands and admitting that we accept sticking a hook into a fish is cruel. Make no mistake these people will never be on our side. It would pay to remember that they want angling banned in all its forms regardless of bait used. On the subject of bait what is live bait? After all maggots and worms are alive, should these be banned to?

 

At least to their credit the antis are consistent in there belief that angling in general is cruel. Sadly consistency is some what lacking in many anglers arguments! What sort of message does it send out when some anglers will happily use live bait but say they only lip hook them? Same as the angler who will quite happily use a roach for bait but not a carp! For the angler who thinks it is acceptable to lip hook a live but not hook it in the body (and for that matter all anglers who think it is ok to hook fish in the mouth when catching them but not to use them as bait) I will ask one question, where would be more sensitive the lip area or the back? I think we all know the answer! At this point let me point out that I made my decision a long time ago and I’m happy enough in the belief that fish don’t feel pain as we do regardless of where they are hooked. Once again if it is not for you then say so and I will respect your view. What I will not respect is some one making false statements to support their decision or trying to remove my right to choose.

 

Common examples of this are the often made remark that live baiting is unnecessary to catch pike. Yes I agree that on most waters pike can be caught on dead baits or lures but not on all! Some trout reservoirs I could take you to you could fish with deads all year and you wouldn’t get a take! Deads also catch on my local river but at a ratio of around 1 fish on a dead to every 30+ on lives! Nothing wrong with deads they are a valuable part of a pikers armoury but they aren’t the be all and end all. Catch at any cost? No certainly not but why should I have to restrict myself so much? Cheese catches roach but how would the average roach fisher feel if maggots and casters were banned and cheese was all he was allowed?

 

Some say it is unsporting. Well I can’t really comment on this one as I don’t understand the argument at all!

 

Live baiting spreads diseases. Well I won’t go in to the rights or wrongs of transporting fish as this is another personal choice as to whether you accept the rules on this issue. Let it be enough to say that the law says you must not do it and that it is quite legal to use fish you have caught as bait on the same water. Also it is a simple fact that no proven case of fish translocation or spread of disease has ever been put down to anglers live baiting. That said it pays to be sensible and only use healthy fish, after all no pike angler I know would want to be responsible for the spread of disease or translocation of a species.

 

Taking fish for live bait spoils other anglers sport. A bit of common sense and consideration does need to be shown here. A group of regular pike anglers taking 20 baits or so each every week over the winter season could have an effect on a small water with low stocking densities, but then it’s a lot easier to get baits from a large water with loads in so it is in effect a drop in the ocean! Worth bearing in mind though. Rainbow trout from your local hatchery won’t affect your local ponds stocks! They are cheap enough and make strong baits you can even get all the correct paper work in theory but in practice most local EA offices will say not to bother!

 

Using 1lb roach as baits. No way is this acceptable it would get up my nose let alone a dedicated roach anglers! Totally unnecessary as well. Over large baits are merely a waste of quality fish. Big baits are harder to use and harder to set the hooks with. They certainly don’t necessarily attract bigger fish but if you feel you need a large visual bait then why not use a skimmer? Maybe not as strong but plenty of them and wont be missed in the ecosystem as much as a 1lb roach. Anyway I wish I knew a water where I could go and catch a tub of 1lb roach that easily! In reality I don’t think it happens as much (if at all) as some anti live baiters would have us believe.

 

To sum up I made my choice a long time ago and I’m quite happy that live baiting is a perfectly acceptable tactic and no crueller (if cruel at all) than any other angling. For people who aren’t happy to do it then fine that is your choice and I would never pressure you to do so. In these days of the antis growing campaign to get angling banned full stop I feel that all anglers regardless of their personal views on live baiting should stick together and make no concessions to them at all. Like I said what is the difference between casting out and hooking a fish and hooking a fish and casting it out? I’m sure the antis won’t see any.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for keeping an open mind TT.I hope my "copy and paste" helps confirm your change of mind.

[essox_lucius]

For or against? Sadly this decision is made by a lot of people on purely emotive and sentimental reasons. It is therefore very hard to reason with anti live baiters as they refuse to see the facts. Many don’t actually fish for predators so in practical terms it doesn’t affect them. They use old clichéd pseudo scientific arguments to try and back up their emotional argument. As I said very hard to reason using hard facts against emotion.

 

A lot of people say that live baiting is cruel because you are sticking hooks into a live fish. I thought that was what we do every time we catch a fish? The whole business of whether fish feel pain or not is an often argued subject with many scientific studies having been carried out. Sadly none of these seem to be in agreement! The issue of is it cruel or not is one that each angler has to personally decide for them self, much as you have to make your decision in the early days of your angling career as to whether angling or not is cruel. This is a personal choice and one which I respect each individuals choice. If live baiting is not for you then fine but please also respect the choice of others who wish to do so. For me there is no difference in casting out and sticking a hook in a fish and sticking a hook in a fish then casting out.

 

Many say that they think it would be a good idea for angling to ban live baiting as it would appease the antis. I feel by doing this we would be simply falling into their hands and admitting that we accept sticking a hook into a fish is cruel. Make no mistake these people will never be on our side. It would pay to remember that they want angling banned in all its forms regardless of bait used. On the subject of bait what is live bait? After all maggots and worms are alive, should these be banned to?

 

At least to their credit the antis are consistent in there belief that angling in general is cruel. Sadly consistency is some what lacking in many anglers arguments! What sort of message does it send out when some anglers will happily use live bait but say they only lip hook them? Same as the angler who will quite happily use a roach for bait but not a carp! For the angler who thinks it is acceptable to lip hook a live but not hook it in the body (and for that matter all anglers who think it is ok to hook fish in the mouth when catching them but not to use them as bait) I will ask one question, where would be more sensitive the lip area or the back? I think we all know the answer! At this point let me point out that I made my decision a long time ago and I’m happy enough in the belief that fish don’t feel pain as we do regardless of where they are hooked. Once again if it is not for you then say so and I will respect your view. What I will not respect is some one making false statements to support their decision or trying to remove my right to choose.

 

Common examples of this are the often made remark that live baiting is unnecessary to catch pike. Yes I agree that on most waters pike can be caught on dead baits or lures but not on all! Some trout reservoirs I could take you to you could fish with deads all year and you wouldn’t get a take! Deads also catch on my local river but at a ratio of around 1 fish on a dead to every 30+ on lives! Nothing wrong with deads they are a valuable part of a pikers armoury but they aren’t the be all and end all. Catch at any cost? No certainly not but why should I have to restrict myself so much? Cheese catches roach but how would the average roach fisher feel if maggots and casters were banned and cheese was all he was allowed?

 

Some say it is unsporting. Well I can’t really comment on this one as I don’t understand the argument at all!

 

Live baiting spreads diseases. Well I won’t go in to the rights or wrongs of transporting fish as this is another personal choice as to whether you accept the rules on this issue. Let it be enough to say that the law says you must not do it and that it is quite legal to use fish you have caught as bait on the same water. Also it is a simple fact that no proven case of fish translocation or spread of disease has ever been put down to anglers live baiting. That said it pays to be sensible and only use healthy fish, after all no pike angler I know would want to be responsible for the spread of disease or translocation of a species.

 

Taking fish for live bait spoils other anglers sport. A bit of common sense and consideration does need to be shown here. A group of regular pike anglers taking 20 baits or so each every week over the winter season could have an effect on a small water with low stocking densities, but then it’s a lot easier to get baits from a large water with loads in so it is in effect a drop in the ocean! Worth bearing in mind though. Rainbow trout from your local hatchery won’t affect your local ponds stocks! They are cheap enough and make strong baits you can even get all the correct paper work in theory but in practice most local EA offices will say not to bother!

 

Using 1lb roach as baits. No way is this acceptable it would get up my nose let alone a dedicated roach anglers! Totally unnecessary as well. Over large baits are merely a waste of quality fish. Big baits are harder to use and harder to set the hooks with. They certainly don’t necessarily attract bigger fish but if you feel you need a large visual bait then why not use a skimmer? Maybe not as strong but plenty of them and wont be missed in the ecosystem as much as a 1lb roach. Anyway I wish I knew a water where I could go and catch a tub of 1lb roach that easily! In reality I don’t think it happens as much (if at all) as some anti live baiters would have us believe.

 

To sum up I made my choice a long time ago and I’m quite happy that live baiting is a perfectly acceptable tactic and no crueller (if cruel at all) than any other angling. For people who aren’t happy to do it then fine that is your choice and I would never pressure you to do so. In these days of the antis growing campaign to get angling banned full stop I feel that all anglers regardless of their personal views on live baiting should stick together and make no concessions to them at all. Like I said what is the difference between casting out and hooking a fish and hooking a fish and casting it out? I’m sure the antis won’t see any.

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[watatoad]

I believe that to ban part of what is traditionally my sport / pastime / hobby is an infringement of my human rights…

 

I am a man – man is a hunter – I am a hunter.

 

I do not wear plastic materials because they are a finite resource…Most GREENIES are pillaging and ruining our planet by refusing to use a replenishable material source e.g. Leather, cotton, silk etc.,

 

I have never even heard of a GREENIE telling a Hells Angel that he is wrong to wear leather nor have I ever even heard of a GREENIE throwing paint over a Hells Angel because he has some fur on his jacket or because he is wearing leather…All they are is clearly shown by their comments and actions little gutless would be dictators…who in my opinion should be used as bait when great white hunting.

 

Although I have never been a Pike angler I am now considering to do so much live baiting for Pike the coming season I might even break the national record for shear quantity…hehehe…

 

My personal best for a Pike is 1lb 10oz caught because it would not let go of the Roach I was fishing for and had caught.

 

I fish on average 5 days a week so I guess that will be a lot of pike caught on live bait this coming season thanks solely to our self opinionated so called GREENIE gentle would be dictators

[Worms]

ECOLOGISTS,

Steady!

[watatoad]

Steady!

 

:bigemo_harabe_net-163:

 

No chance...hehehe

[Worms]

:bigemo_harabe_net-163:

 

No chance...hehehe

I am one!