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Yet Another Angler Trying To Ban Livebaiting


Elton

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The strength of divided opinions on livebaiting is not surprising, but when I read the amount of abuse to anyone who questions it's practice on here is surprising. It would seem that some of you would believe that banning livebaiting would lead to the demise of Angling, it will not, it will however put Angling in a better light with those who seek to condemn us.

 

I am afraid we do have to succumb to public opinion sometimes, or even to a gut instinct as to what is right or wrong.

 

Apparently more think livebaiting is wrong than right, I don't mean non anglers, these are anglers that are pushing for an ban, this is demonstrated from democratic descisions by Angling Clubs like the BAA to effect a ban.

 

The popular retort on her is it's cruel to kill maggotts worms. to use hooks, and therefore on that basis alone livebaiting should be allowed, well that is I am afraid is rather dillusional and I think you appreciate that the practise is different, I am sure the general public would see it that way too.

 

Of course there are other reasons for banning livebaiting, not least the importing of live fish into areas that could decimate a fishery...And with the excellent lures that are available now I feel there is enough on the market to satisfy the most demanding angler or fish.

 

For me this is not a big issue, what is however is the decimation of our river fish by Otters, but that's another story, certainly far more pressing than this immotive subject.

 

If "public opinion" believes that sticking hooks in live fish is cruel then I doubt that said "public opinion" will differentiate between using livebaits and catching fish.

 

Ban putting a hook into a fish and you effectively ban fishing.

 

The argument about "importing live fish" into waters as livebaits is irrelevant. The practice is illegal and, as such, any angler caught doing so is open, quite justifiably, to the wrath of the law. The number of non livebaiting anglers who are using this as an argument seem to be a little uneducated in our national byelaws. How many more are they unaware of?

 

If angling clubs wish to ban methods of fishing then all that will do is reduce the number of pike anglers in those clubs....and perch and chub anglers come to that.

 

I won't advocate a ban on using unnatural baits such as boilies, pastes, pellets, coloured maggots, bread, cheese, sweetcorn, luncheon meat, tiger nuts (and the thousands of tons of marine fishmeal and oils that gets thrown into our freshwater eco-system every year as groundbait)...... etc. etc if you don't support a ban on natural ones. It's horses for courses and anglers should stick together and just have a little respect for different techniques. Yes criticism happens but it is our choice not to use those techniques if we don't wish to.

 

Your other big issue is a non-issue in my opinion teme_man, particularly on the Teme! The constant raising of this issue by 'anglers' is also much more likely to get the public hating anglers and trying to ban angling than a few people using natural wild baits to tempt natural wild fish. What happens in 10 years time when 'fluffy' anglers have killed all of the otters and let the pike take over as top predator? A cull of pike?

Edited by Worms

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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What happens in 10 years time when 'fluffy' anglers have killed all of the otters and let the pike take over as top predator? A cull of pike?

 

I would like to raise a point on your comment Worms

 

I do not consider the anti livebaiting minority to be fluffy anglers...More like jumped up little dictatorial individuals who are more interested in taking away and/or changing our rights, traditions and culture...probably because they get turned on by hurting others and preventing others doing what they want...a very dangerous road to go down.

 

Just a few of the more notable autocratic (right removing and/or dictatorial) ones who have done similar in the last one hundred years:

 

Vladimir Ulyanov (Lenin);

Joseph Stalin;

Adolf Hitler:

Idi Amin;

Mao Tse Tung;

Francisco Paulino Hermenegildo Teódulo de Franco y Bahamonde;

Mehmed Talaat;

Ismail Enver;

Ahmed Djemal;

Velupillai Prabhakaran;

François "Papa Doc" Duvalier;

Dwight D. Eisenhower;

Robert Mugabe;

John F. Kennedy;

Richard Nixon;

Lyndon B. Johnson;

Osama bin Laden;

Tony Blair;

Gordon Brown.

 

Sadly there are quite a few more

From a spark a fire will flare up

English by birth, Cockney by the Grace of God

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10: I quite expect we will see the return of fox hunting and the introduction of otter hunting

 

Lets hope so it would make my job a lot easier :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

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The strength of divided opinions on livebaiting is not surprising, but when I read the amount of abuse to anyone who questions it's practice on here is surprising.

 

I am afraid we do have to succumb to public opinion sometimes, or even to a gut instinct as to what is right or wrong.

 

Apparently more think livebaiting is wrong than right, I don't mean non anglers, these are anglers that are pushing for an ban, this is demonstrated from democratic descisions by Angling Clubs like the BAA to effect a ban.

 

Of course there are other reasons for banning livebaiting.And with the excellent lures that are available now I feel there is enough on the market to satisfy the most demanding angler or fish.

 

 

So, during the summer months one of the deadliest and effective methods of fishing, catching if you like for us salties is to use live mackerel and launce, sand eels. Can't see anyone proposing a ban on the horizon, you looking to start the ball rolling. Or is fishing in the sea different? We do use excellent rubber, however, nothing beats the use of the real stuff. :fishing:

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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I see your point Watatoad,

 

I was just trying to emphasise the point that the 'fluffy' brigade are those persons desirous of a perfect equilibrium of their habits/hobby/pastime whilst remaining uneducated about the requirements for a balanced ecosystem and the rules (political) that it is governed with.

 

Angling, the hunting requirement, is being eroded byangling the pleasure pastime. Oh yes, we are all guilty of fishing for pleasure but learning about the waters we fish in is in my view an essential part of that.

 

Footballists or cricketers would no more be allowed to run onto the pitch during a national game say, because they fancied having 'a go'. They don't have the training/skills/mindset. Likewise with angling, in natural waters we are dealing with our own future. Learn the balance, work with it and don't try and fight sustainable pastimes that have no detrimental effect......If you fish stocked ponds then fine but, make sure you only support those that don't run the risk of polluting our rivers or natural lakes with alien invaders or effluent from such species.

 

Value your environment by taking a little time to learn about it before slating methods, techniques and skills that have no detrimental effect and, are perfectly sustainable without any requirement for re-stocking, specialist breeding or factories spewing out the latest in artificial baits!

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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I see your point Watatoad,

 

I was just trying to emphasise the point that the 'fluffy' brigade are those persons desirous of a perfect equilibrium of their habits/hobby/pastime whilst remaining uneducated about the requirements for a balanced ecosystem and the rules (political) that it is governed with.

 

Angling, the hunting requirement, is being eroded byangling the pleasure pastime. Oh yes, we are all guilty of fishing for pleasure but learning about the waters we fish in is in my view an essential part of that.

 

Footballists or cricketers would no more be allowed to run onto the pitch during a national game say, because they fancied having 'a go'. They don't have the training/skills/mindset. Likewise with angling, in natural waters we are dealing with our own future. Learn the balance, work with it and don't try and fight sustainable pastimes that have no detrimental effect......If you fish stocked ponds then fine but, make sure you only support those that don't run the risk of polluting our rivers or natural lakes with alien invaders or effluent from such species.

 

Value your environment by taking a little time to learn about it before slating methods, techniques and skills that have no detrimental effect and, are perfectly sustainable without any requirement for re-stocking, specialist breeding or factories spewing out the latest in artificial baits!

 

:bigemo_harabe_net-163: :bigemo_harabe_net-163: :bigemo_harabe_net-163:

 

I know Worms

 

I just wanted to make a point so when the anti brigade get my comments read to them, they will with a lot of luck begin to see and realise we know their game and where they are coming from...I do not expect them to have the intelligence or the intellect or any understanding of this planet and ALL its residents whatever shape they form.

 

I realise with a saddened and sorrowed heart that there is no possibility of them actually seeing beyond their noses nor idiosyncratic attitudes nor even the slightest chance of consideration or respect for others of their own species...I wonder at times if they are some form of sub species or sub creatures lacking in a great many areas driven solely by the desire to dominate others yet without the ability to do so. I have also recently been considering that they might actually be a new offshoot to the main body of human evolution which if it does turn out to be the case their comments and attitude puts them into the non-survivor area of species development, history and evolution of this planet is littered with such offshoots of the main species development total discarded species failures.

 

This may make some of you smile but it does have a point although more political than fishing.

 

Whilst listening to a discussion fairly recently between a few very senior friends, senior in age that is, they served in the military in WW2 but on opposing sides. They had me in hysterics when the Englishman said

"This country seems to have a very noisy minority group who represent all that is wrong with this country to-day. You know the lot. Them that need a nanny government, weak, wishy washy, feeble minded, soft, feigning animal love, pussy whipped, gutless, most of them need to be told when to wipe their a***s, b****y wimps, thank God! we did not have many of those greenies during the war." His German friend responded "Pity you did not, my side would have been ruling the world now."

 

I appologise to any I may have upset by my responses to any who would limit or restrict angling in any way...I shall try...hehehe...to keep my comments and responses more on one of the loves of my life 'fishing' that is...My problem is I believe in and am fully committed to the civil rights, the rights of the individual, personal freedom within the confines of a civilised society and the rights and respect due tradition and culture.

 

History shows us how any reduction in the rights of individuals grows exponentially partly because it encourages those in power to treat people as things rather than treating people as people.

Edited by watatoad

From a spark a fire will flare up

English by birth, Cockney by the Grace of God

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Hi Worms

TBH I don't have a real passion for the banning of livebaiting I am just putting into words what I feel is the mood of Angling right now!! I agree we do have to stick together and I will defend my right to fish as much as anyone.

However opinions will vary on such matters and we should be allowed to air them on here without being slagged off, especially here.

 

Fluffy anglers? I take it you think that anglers might be taking the law into their own hands? I don't think so bit to put a top predator into a small river, along with established mink shows a total disregard to coarse anglers. I don't do carp commercials, I do prefer the rivers for its challenges, however after years of decline on the rivers, just when we were getting it right again, the Otter was introduced and deprived many of their sporting potential, but I digress.

 

And no I don't think we should cull pike, or cull anythink, but we should be wary of INTRODUCING top preds into any balanced fishery.

Hello teme_man.

 

Perhaps what you are putting into words is the flavour of the month from some of the angling press?

 

I agree with your sentiments regarding expressing your views on this forum.

 

As for anglers taking the law into their own hands regarding killing otters then yes, unfortunately I know they are. This has been admitted by a 'senior' journalist of one of the more outspoken (and sensationalist) angling papers (his first name rhymes with Greg and his second rhymes with Whitehead). The appropriate peole have been informed.

 

re-introducing a few top predators to waters with fish populations capable of sustaining them is not a problem. Otters will also compete with mink and, eventually oust them.

 

As for the decline of fish in rivers well, I'm one of those lucky chaps that fishes rivers that haver had limited alien introductions, deliberate Barbel and accidental carp and mink. Fortunately the otters have always been here and, as a native predator in a balanced environment on rivers such as the Lugg, Wye and Teme are having no detrimental effect on the fishing. In fact the trend for the past 30 years has been an increase in the number of species, an increase in the average size and an increase in individual fish of most species!

 

Start feeding predators with extra, easily caught fish in small ponds and you are asking for trouble unless you fence them or take other legal methods. Anyway this isn';t an otter thread and there are plenty of those to peruse for some of the facts :rolleyes:

 

Live-baiting for pike? Yep I'd do it without hesitation. Using a small wild caught chub, dace, bleak, roach or whatever from a healthy fishery to tempt a predator is, in my opinion a much more rounded method of angling than buying a blast frozen, chub, dace, bleak, roach, etc. that has still been killed and taken from some other water. lure fishing has its place, as does fly fishing. Just how environmentally friendly is it though? How many far eastern children are working for a pittance to supply us with expensive lures and flies? How many of them are suffering and not able to enforce their Human rights?

 

Ok, a bit extreme but a lot more significant than taking the occasional fish!

 

Don't forget, the EA, even after all of the advertising for the proposed ban on taking coarse fish (deep sarcasm) admitted that taking fifteen 6" fish a day was acceptable (even though taking one 1lb 8oz perch is not!) regarding the sustainability of fisheries!

 

It is purely a matter of choice. As you have noticed from some of the heated replies a lot of anglers are very much against any more bans. How did it all kick off? Some bait seller doesn't want us to use free bait!

 

Tightlines!

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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teme_man

 

Just like to make one thing clear, my comments are not aimed at you personally nor at any particular individual.

 

I respect you have the right to choose to livebait or not, just as I expect you to respect other anglers have the right to livebait or not it's each individuals choice.

 

I personally believe that any blanket bans can only ever damage hobbies, sports, pastimes and cultures.

 

I do accept when it comes to introducing non native species or the poorly thought out re-introduction of native species or banning some area of fishing I do respond usually swiftly, vitriolically, verbosely and I try to put out a lot of information from multiple sources to make a point on a post.

 

However just for the record I don't actually fish for pike and never have in over 57 years of fishing, however all this talk of banning it has made me determined to fish extensively for pike in the coming season and I shall be constantly and exclusively using livebait.

Edited by watatoad

From a spark a fire will flare up

English by birth, Cockney by the Grace of God

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I am closing this topic. I think we've exhausted all the usual discussion points for live baiting.

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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