ACA Mag. Bailey's piece???

[Paul Boote]

Jim Gibbinson:

I haven't read John Bailey's article, but based on the comments made by others:

 

I agree with him regarding livebaiting - its perception by the non-angling public - and indeed, by many anglers (including myself) - is that it is cruel. Furthermore, it will prove to be a gift to the antis when they finally get their act together.

 

I agree with him about keepnets. They are demonstrably bad for fish welfare, especially when used to hold a relatively large catch. Bream and roach, particularly, suffer in keepnets.

 

I don't, however, agree with him about treble hooks and pike. Small trebles (size 8 maximum) are less likely to penetrate an essential organ than are the large singles that are sometimes used an an alternative.

 

I agree with him about long-stay carp anglers, especially when they "stitch up" key areas for protracted periods of time.

 

I agree with him about those photo-sessions when the fish is kept out of water for far too long. Dangerous, too, are multi-catch pictures (yes, I was guilty of it many years ago, but at least I've learned from my mistakes). I find it difficult enough to control one large fish, let alone two or more.

 

It seems, then, that John Bailey has his supporters, as well as his detractors...

I agree with Jim (and therefore JB) about much of the above.

 

I have tried similar, enlightened, looking-to-the-future stuff on gamefishers in recent years, and the response has been 'interesting' to say the very least. I have, at times (consistently and persistently), been publicly branded on certain Internet fishing forums as: a closet Anti; mad / schizoid / paranoiac; erratic and undependable; not having done any / a fraction of "what he's always claiming he's done"; an inveterate liar, someone utterly untrustworthy; even (biggest Larf! of all) Gay; etc etc...

 

Funny how the prospect of necessary change can affect certain people.

 

 

PS - here is a light-hearted example from just yesterday:

 

http://flyforums.proboards53.com/index.cgi...read=1128378954

 

I replied in good spirit, taking the Mick mercilessly, but you should have seen just what some of these no-names were up to a month or two back! Made me wonder if they ever go fishing. Wonder, too, if their particular 'thing' is more a certain type of long-since-discredited dirty politics...

 

[ 05. October 2005, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Paul Boote ]

[Peter Waller]

Like Jim & Paul I think that Bailey has a point, a few valid points. But the other issue, allienation, also has validity.

 

The ACA is having a membership drive, as you would expect with the new set-up. For a vice president to knock the practices, all perfectly legal, of potential members is hardly politic! Especially after Bob Jame's comments on livebaiting and the furore that they created.

[slodger]

'I agree with him regarding livebaiting - its perception by the non-angling public - and indeed, by many anglers (including myself) - is that it is cruel. Furthermore, it will prove to be a gift to the antis when they finally get their act together.'

 

That's just about the worst kind of misguided garbage that circulates in angling!

 

'I agree with him about keepnets. They are demonstrably bad for fish welfare....'

 

And catching them by the means of offering them a baited hook is demonstrating absolute concern for their welfare is it? Arrant hypocrisy! The trouble with people like you is that they care only about how legislation affects their fishing. Your point about treble hooks illustrates this perfectly, it's the one thing Bailey has disparaged that might reflect on your style of angling. How about considering what other anglers enjoy doing, before condemming their practises out of hand?

 

'Dangerous, too, are multi-catch pictures (yes, I was guilty of it many years ago, but at least I've learned from my mistakes).'

 

Then let others have the opportunity to learn from theirs? Anti photography snipes always, but always, come from older anglers with albums full of pictures.

[Alan Stubbs]

Peter Waller:

A career in politics!?! shudder and yet more shudder.

 

I look at some of those nice politicians on the Conservative benches and think, do I want to be like you?

And then you look at the alternatives, and maybe they aren't so bad after all. Most current MP's wouldn't even have managed a place in my school's English Speaking Union debating team, and will say anything to anyone if they think there's a vote to be had from it.

[Bob Bradford]

What a good idea! lets give ground on live-baits to appease the minority, or we could concede that keep-nets are totally unnecessary (except of course if you happen to like fishing matches for money or silverware) how about we all agree to fishing no longer than 2 hrs a week? will that do it?

Why don't we all stop using hooks and bait?

 

Ridiculous isn't it?

 

Mark my words, if angling starts conceding ANYTHING we are currently ,legally allowed to do, things will snowball and it will be the end of angling in this Country for all of us, you have been warned.

[snotty]

I think John Bailey is right to stand up and say what concerns him, I concur with most(not all) of his points.

 

The article is, as he concedes, controversial in some respects, I guess thats why he wrote it... stupid he ain't. If it provokes discussion regarding fish welfare within the angling community it just may lead to improved awareness amongst the uneducated, (and by that I don't mean stupid, just not informed or misinformed).

 

Appearing as it does in an ACA report, you would assume that its readers are not ignorant in these matters, and are unlikely to see the piece as a personal attack, so alienation should not be a major factor among members.

 

The only negative I can see is the possibility of a potential member reading it and deciding not to join as a result, that would be a shame.

 

As for providing ammunition for antis, the best way of defending an attack is surely to prepare the arguments against by studying the arguments for, open debate is to be encouraged.

[Brian Carragher]

Well said Bob.

I'll echo every word you said. I've said it before and I'll say it again that the biggest threat to angling comes from anglers themselves and their biased and un-educated responses to issues surrounding angling.

If there is something in angling that anglers don't like then they have the option not to do it. Don't come on sites like this and tell the rest of us anglers that we're doing something immoral or illegal when we are in fact following the letter and the spirit of the law in fishing within current legally proscribed law regulated by Parliament.

Keepnets are legal and used by many myself included and as far as building up a good bag (wonder where that expression came from) is vital when targetting certain species.

Matchmen need one for obvious reasons,far more humane to catch and retain a fish than to catch, release and possibly catch again would'ntyou agree.

As for predator fishing I feel treble hooks to be better for the job than singles and live bait to be an effective and legal bait in the right circumstances. I was livebaiting for perch on Saturday just gone and only used one fish all day. All perfectly legal. Where livebaiting is prohibited by riparian owners or in places like the Lakes or Broads then I abide by the law and don't do it, and were it to be banned by the EA then I would'nt use liveys anymore.

In short gents all I would say is stop trying to create division within angling when there should be none, don't do the work of the antis for them,use your loaf and think about what you post and how that information might be used by those opposed to angling

[wunnus]

I find JB s comments hard to swallow.

 

ButI also have a sneaky suspicion that he is actually shining a light on what we might have to do.

 

Bring nack Bert Ford, the weather hasnt been the same since he left.

[wunnus]

err Bring back Bert Ford lol

[Peter Waller]

wunnus:

I find JB s comments hard to swallow.

 

But I also have a sneaky suspicion that he is actually shining a light on what we might have to do.

Reckon that is pretty much right.

 

Got to admit it though, I agreed entirely with his comments about keepnets. His other comments, ummmmmmmmmm, not so sure.

 

[ 05. October 2005, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]