Hunting and Angling.

[Nightwing]

Because it seems that British and American terms are rather different when it comes to the various outdoor activities, I have a question.

Putting aside fox hunting(we would call it coursing over here), how do you all feel about hunting as it is know in the rest of the world, as in hunting for game with firearms?

Just wondering if the gulf between "hunting" as I know it, and angling is as wide in the U.K. as it seems. Here in the states, there is almost universal support from both the angling and hunting communities for one another, which makes both stronger when faced with difficulties.

[Mally]

I dont know but i would guess in the sates there are a lot more people who cross the divide between shooting and fishing, i.e. they do both, over hear there dont seam to be that many who do both and i think that this is where the divide comes from, Me, i'm gonna stick my neck out, i'm pro hunting and shooting, dont do either, never have though i have worked at a game keepers, ive seen both sides so to speak, had the keeper whom i worked for not left the shoot i'm almost certain i would still be going up there every now and again to help out. Still each to there own.

[phonebush]

Nightwing,

I believe most "hunting" in the UK is "coursing". There is little room for wild game in a country the size on NJ with 45+ million people.

BTW, did you see my response to your inquiry in the "'hunting' Pages: 1 2 3" ?

Phone

[Paul_H]

Phone its now 60+ million people. As mid 2000 the goverments own estimate was 59,755,700.

 

Reference hunting itself,as Phone says most people as soon as you say hunting think only of coursing. Bearing in mind firearms are banned excluding shotguns which are harder and harder for the normal person to own. The only other hunting is done either with a shotgun or an air rifle and it is birds or rabbits that are normally the targets.

 

Even to do this you need to have a sympathetic land owner who has given you permission to hunt on his/her land, not easy to find for the average person. So not many people hunt at all or have even had the opportunity to try.

[Chris Goddard]

Originally posted by Paul_H:

Reference hunting itself,as Phone says most people as soon as you say hunting think only of coursing.

 

Bearing in mind firearms are banned excluding shotguns which are harder and harder for the normal person to own. The only other hunting is done either with a shotgun or an air rifle and it is birds or rabbits that are normally the targets.

 

Even to do this you need to have a sympathetic land owner who has given you permission to hunt on his/her land, not easy to find for the average person. So not many people hunt at all or have even had the opportunity to try.

[Chris Goddard]

Originally posted by Paul_H:

Reference hunting itself,as Phone says most people as soon as you say hunting think only of coursing.

 

Bearing in mind firearms are banned excluding shotguns which are harder and harder for the normal person to own. The only other hunting is done either with a shotgun or an air rifle and it is birds or rabbits that are normally the targets.

 

Even to do this you need to have a sympathetic land owner who has given you permission to hunt on his/her land, not easy to find for the average person. So not many people hunt at all or have even had the opportunity to try.

 

Sorry!! But I really do need to clear up a couple of GLARING wrongs here!!

Hunting is hunting!! Coursing is chasing a hare around a compound with dogs!! No the same terms are NOT as here in UK.

Shotguns and air rifles ARE classified as firearms!! And are not banned. The only ban which exists for firearms at present are those relating to FIREARMS with a certain barrel length. Pistols (As they are called) fall into this category.

As for having to find a "Sympathetic" owner this too is a bit misleading. Any farmer who has any sort of problem with vermin (Legal classification) i.e. Rabbits, Foxes, Magpies, Crows, Rooks,etc., etc. Will usually call on the services of anyone who shows a bit of common sense and is well presented and polite. Just as I did last night!! The farmer in question is known as not being averse to asking people to exit left from his land whilst posing with a shotgun in his hands!! And has been known to shoot at "LOw flying pigeons" whilst doing this!! I asked him last night how much of his pasture he was prepared to feed to the rabbit poulation? He smile (Wryly!) and asked me if I could thin them out a bit for him?! I wanted to say anyone with a big stick could do it as there are so many1 But refrained and am now employed 5 days a week thinning out his rabbit problem!!

I like many others will "Take out anyone for a trial day's shooting. And if you are prepared to get the required i.e membership of say BASC you would very soon be able to find yourself land to shoot over!

Sorry this is a bit wide of your original post Nightwing! But it had to be done!!

 

Chris

[Croix]

Well done Chris, as always most peoples ideas regarding firearms law and shooting are somewhat wide of the mark.

I fish and shoot and see no real divide between these branches of fieldsports, a lot of the people I meet while fishing are also shooters.

 

Where the divide really shows in my opinion is between hunting with hounds and fishing, many anglers feel that hunting a single animal with a pack of hounds is unsporting and outdated. I think the majority of fieldsports and angling get along reasonably well, it's just the hunting with dogs issue that causes most of the friction.

 

Dave

 

[ 08. August 2002, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Croix ]

[RobStubbs]

I have to agree with Chris, it is generally hunting with hounds that people are opposed to. In the UK I would guess the majority of hunting is actually vermin or pest control, so typically rabbits, woodpigeons etc would be the quarry. I would suspect that most people wouldn't have any objections to that type of 'hunting'. Also in the UK it is really only handguns that are banned, which is a real shame for us competitive pistol shooters.

 

Rob.

[Nightwing]

Thanks for the replies.

As an add-on question, is it all hunting with hounds, or just fox chasing, that is opposed by anglers in general?

For instance, here in the states fox hunting as practiced in the U.K. is essentialy non-existanct, yet, a great deal of hunting is done with the use of hounds. We hunt rabbit, coyote, cats(bobcat, mountain lion), raccoon, and in places, deer and bear.

One major differenc is that the hounds themselves are never used to dispatch the animal, that is done by a hunter, on foot, with a firearm.

Horses, by the way, are not used either, all following of the dogs is on foot, which as you can imaging makes hound hunting a rather strenous activity!

In addition, only about 25% of chases are successfull, and of these, only about 1/3 result in a kill(young, or females animals are generaly released).

Anyway, I realise that some major cultural differences exist here, but just wondering your thoughts.

Would hound hunting, as I describe it, be any more acceptable?

[Newt]

To add on to nightwing's a little -

 

I've done four types of hunting with dogs. All very different but all lots of fun.

 

Duck hunting where the dog's job was to retrieve downed birds. Better the dog swimming in freezing water than me. And the two main breeds seem to thrive on it.

 

Upland bird hunting with pointers and setters where the dog pointed out the bird's location and then fetched it if I made a good shot.

 

Rabbit hunting with beagle's. Short legged dogs that could never begin to catch a rabbit. In fact, a rabbit will frequently be seen to run some to open a lead and then stop and wait for the dogs for a bit. Only possible for the hunter to bag the rabbit because of their habit of running in a large but near-perfect circle when being chased. You mark where the rabbit started from and then wait for it to pass that spot again. At least 2/3 of the fun for me is to listen to the dogs.

 

Coon (racoon) hunting with hounds. Done at night where I live and in patches of woods. Hunters (nearly always a group) pick a spot and let the dogs loose. Pretty soon they are on a trail and making those lovely hound sounds. When the dogs get too close, the coon simply climbs the nearest tree and the dogs circle round the base making lots of noise. Hunters can then find the tree and either kill the coon if they want the meat or just gather up the dogs and set them on another chase.

 

If the area has water (pond, stream, etc.) and the coon is an old male that has done this before, it is quite likely to make a distinct trail along the ground and into the water (they are excellent swimmers) and then circle back to near where it entered the water and then wait for the dogs.

 

In the water, a large coon is more than a match for the dog and will jump in the water after the dog, catch up to it, climb on it's head, and quite possibly hold it under.

 

At any rate, as Nightwing said, the dogs chase, tree, flush, whatever but hunters take care of the game. The only exception I've ever heard of is with bears but I only know of that from old movies. Bear would often stop and turn on the dogs. Sometimes the bear won, sometimes the dogs but usually the bear unless the hunter arrived pretty quickly.

 

The above are all hunting and all done with dogs but don't seem to fit the same profile as "riding to the hounds". I also wonder if there would be UK objection to these sorts of hunting.

 

[ 09. August 2002, 06:07 AM: Message edited by: Newt ]