Hunting and Angling.

[Paul_H]

Chris Goddard:

Sorry!! But I really do need to clear up a couple of GLARING wrongs here!!

Hunting is hunting!! Coursing is chasing a hare around a compound with dogs!! No the same terms are NOT as here in UK.

Shotguns and air rifles ARE classified as firearms!! And are not banned.

 

Chris

Sorry Chris but I do believe that we are both right yes over here coursing might well be chasing a hare around a compound but in America and Canada you will find different types of coursing, one of which is coursing were you use dogs to chase rabbits etc in the wild. OK instead of horses they go on foot or by 4x4.

 

Too my mind this is close enough to fox hunting to draw a comparison for them to understand what we do whilst fox hunting. Certainly when my friends over there mention coursing this is the type they are reffering to not lure coursing or any of the other types of coursing around. Which is what I presumed Phone was talking about when he compared the two.

 

I think you will also find that I said "firearms are banned excluding shotguns" which I believe is what you said ok I didn't classify air rifles as firearms I was under the opinion probably wrong that it was only when their muzzle velocity went over a certain speed they were classified as firearms.

 

"The only ban which exists for firearms at present are those relating to FIREARMS with a certain barrel length. Pistols (As they are called) fall into this category." might well be correct but try buying an automatic shotgun over here or a lot of the other firearms available (with licence etc) in places like America or Canada. I do believe the average person over here would find it near impossible to own what I would classify as a hunting rifle.

 

[ 09. August 2002, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Paul_H ]

[RobStubbs]

Paul,

What Chris was trying to say is that all firearms are NOT banned it is only handguns. So for example small bore and full bore rifles are legal, as of course are shotguns.

 

Rob.

[Jim Roper]

Paul_H:

Bearing in mind firearms are banned excluding shotguns which are harder and harder for the normal person to own. The only other hunting is done either with a shotgun or an air rifle and it is birds or rabbits that are normally the targets.

Newt and Nightwing.

Please disregard this statement.

It only goes to show how little some people know about what goes on in the country.

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.march-info.org

http://www.searchlineuk.com/FishList.htm

http://www.thisisdorset.net

[Jim Roper]

phonebush:

Nightwing,

There is little room for wild game in a country the size on NJ with 45+ million people.Phone

If that is the case, why do so many Yanks come here to shoot grouse?

Why do so many Belgians and Swiss come here to shoot Roe deer.

Why do so many Italians come here to shoot geese.

Could it be that the liberal ways in their own countries have led to everything being long gone?

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.thisisdorset.net

http://www.searchlineuk.com/FishList.htm

http://www.march-info.org

[Paul_H]

RobStubbs:

Paul,

What Chris was trying to say is that all firearms are NOT banned it is only handguns. So for example small bore and full bore rifles are legal, as of course are shotguns.

 

Rob.

Rob I accept that is true

 

I lost my interest in shooting 20 years ago and so haven't kept up with the law, but a recent chat show I was listening to was discussing how difficult it was for people to get involved with shooting as a sport, one of the complaints being that even getting a shotgun licence had got harder over the last few years and it varied considerably depending on were you lived. It was no longer a matter of just applying for one and it would be obtained unless there was obvious reasons why you shouldn't have one.

 

I don't know and wait to hear from someone who has actually tried to obtain a licence recently or is the business of issuing them to.

 

RobStubbs:

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul_H:

Bearing in mind firearms are banned excluding shotguns which are harder and harder for the normal person to own. The only other hunting is done either with a shotgun or an air rifle and it is birds or rabbits that are normally the targets.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Newt and Nightwing.

Please disregard this statement.

Yes Jim you are right the statement I made was too general. I ment the only hunting with a rifle/shotgun was usually birds(grouse,pheasants etc) or rabbits, but yes people do hunt deer and other things as well a getting rid of vermin etc. But the point I was trying to make was that hunting over here is not as widespread as hunting over there and not as available to the average person. In fact the majority have never had the chance to try and never will get that chance we can't get a licence for a rifle, a hunting licence and then wander out into the wilds and bag ourselves a deer or any other animal quite the way they can.

 

And yes there are other forms of hunting as well.

[Jim Roper]

Paul_H:

But the point I was trying to make was that hunting over here is not as widespread as hunting over there and not as available to the average person. In fact the majority have never had the chance to try and never will get that chance we can't get a licence for a rifle, a hunting licence and then wander out into the wilds and bag ourselves a deer or any other animal quite the way they can.

If someone 'really' wanted to get involved in shooting, then I suspect that they would find it a lot cheaper than in America.

 

Perhaps Newt and Nightwing can give us some budgets.

 

When you think of the distances they have to travel, even allowing for their dirt cheap petrol, we can find sport on our doorsteps in this country. Roe deer numbers, for example, are virtually out of control and many consider them to be vermin.

There are more carpenters and bricklayers shooting than there are stockbrokers shooting.

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.searchlineuk.com/FishList.htm

http://www.thisisdorset.net

http://www.march-info.org/march2/index.html

[Paul_H]

Yes Jim it is cheap to get involved in shooting over here there are two clubs offering shooting facilities within my local area, to try at one of them is £25 for 1 hour which included x number of shells, I can't remember how many. Another local club a number of my friends(about 11 who all happen to be builders) are going on a days shooting (with a shotgun) and it is only going to cost them £10 each. But both only offer target shooting.

 

I personally think there is a big difference between hunting (with a firearm) and shooting. I know a number of people who shoot but none who really hunt(with a firearm) in this country. I do know a couple of people who kill rats and rabbits etc. on building sites where they work using airrifles (with the building companies permission) but don't really regard that as hunting.

 

I personally have nothing against shooting or hunting, with and without a firearm, but do believe that hunting in this country is not something that many people have or ever will have an opportunity to participate in and because of that our attitudes, as a nation, towards hunting are skewed against.

 

When I chat to my friends in America or Canada they have virtually all been fishing at least at some stage in their life, the majority have also had a go at hunting and shooting. Fishing over there is more of a family activity, and it is really nice to see it like that, you roll up to a river and find mum dad kids etc. all having a go.When did you last see that in the uk, I've never seen it over here.

 

Having experienced both sports or knowing people who participate in both sports allows the two sports to unite and stand together. In this country it just isn't like that there might well be more anglers than shooters and hunters (I don't know) but the majority of anglers I doubt have been shooting just as I doubt they have been hunting, whereas I suspect a large proportion of shooters and hunters have tried angling (they may not still do it) and because of this they can see were and why the two sports should stand together. Whereas anglers who haven't participated in shooting or hunting don't see any reason to unite and without that cross participation I doubt the majority ever will.

[Chris Goddard]

Now see what youv'e done!!

Good old fashioned debate!! As regards the obtaining of firearms certificates and shotgun certificates, the law at present is certainly trying to put people off applying and with regard to firearms I know from personal experience is trying to make things VERY awkward in repect of existing re-newal of certificates and the option of adding more guns to the certificate as well. But as to bores etc., that is and has always been at the behest of the local firearms officer and the land on which you shoot. What I mean to say is that should you want to fire a 7.62mm weapon on a range that would most likely be added. But should you shoot on say 20/30 acres in a built up area the chances would be against It!

Common sense eh?? But i'm afraid most officers see any weapon as a threat and will do there utmost to try and get you tom "Refrain" from applying in the first place!

With regard to air rifles I myself have a rapid 7, a very wideley used gun. But it puts out 11.9 ft/lbs and should I use the wrong ammunition it could well put out over 12ft/lbs (This being the limit for Air weapons) this would make it a firearm that requires me to place It "On ticket" otherwise the local constabulary could confiscate the gun and destroy It there by making me poorer to the tune of several hundred pounds!! You compare that to the muzzle velocity of a .22 rifle!! No contest!! And that is the state of the laws in UK at present! But I would care to guess that there are a lot of people who do not know this is the law and that they are breaking the law! (Ignorance is no defence!)

 

Chris

[Cranfield]

The main difference in hunting/shooting in the UK as against the USA, is that we have very little public land that can be shot/hunted over.

 

Most of our land is private and the "owner" has to give permission for anyone to shoot/hunt on that land.

It is a criminal offence to hunt/shoot over private land without permission.

 

In the US there is a lot of public land that can be shot/hunted over with the necessary State or County permits.

 

The biggest problem in entering the sport of hunting with a shotgun in this country, is access to shooting land , not licensing requirements.

 

[ 09. August 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Cranfield ]

[Chris Goddard]

Cranfield:

The main difference in hunting/shooting in the UK as against the USA, is that we have very little public land that can be shot/hunted over.

 

Most of our land is private and the "owner" has to give permission for anyone to shoot/hunt on that land.

It is a criminal offence to hunt/shoot over private land without permission.

 

In the US there is a lot of public land that can be shot/hunted over with the necessary State or County permits.

 

The biggest problem in entering the sport of hunting with a shotgun in this country, is access to shooting land , not licensing requirements.

I would agree with all that you say apart from the last sentence. I feel that the two are in just as short a supply as each other. In fact you cannot do one without the other anyway. (Have to have land to shoot over or belong to a recognised club before obtaining a licence)

Of course the other little anomaly is that you require a game licence to take rabbits home. You can shoot as many as you like and leave them to rot, but to take them away you need a licence!! they are classed as game when dead and vermin alive!! Work that one out?

:confused:

Chris