balaced tackle

[Guest barry ford]

Originally posted by Steelheader69:

Is there any way I can access this article you're talking about?  I'm new here and live in the US.  I will give my opinion on what I've read.

 

First, a fish can be foulhooked, even being buried in bait.  I've seen numerous fish foulhooked in the tail and side while the hook is buried in a cluster of eggs.  

 

Second, a fishing rod is designed for a soul purpose.  A line rating is there for a reason.  Of course you can use lighter or heavier line on a rod, but use heavier line at a serious discretion.  Overloading a rod can cause damage.  Usually you want the line to snap before the rod will, hence line ratings.  There was the craze with using Berkeley Fireline, and also damaged rods went up.  From personal experience I've seen at least a dozen people snap rods on braided line.  Usually from horsing a fish in, putting too much pressure on a rod.  Also, most braided lines have high knot strength, small diameter.  One problem, most have very little abrasion resistence.  I use Maxima Ultragreen on the majority of my fishing rods.  High strength and high abrasion resistance and standard diameter is fine with me.  I've tried Fireline, I didn't like it.  I always seem to go back to mono.

 

If there is a link to see this article, let me know, then I'll respond again....Thanks...Jerry

 

Hi Jerry.

Tanks for the input, I couldnt agree more with your views, line rating's are there for a purpose. Every angler has a duty to fish with balanced tackle, this is clearly stated in the Barbel Society's recommedations for safe barbel angling.

 

You are quite right braid has far less abraision resistence, touch a rock while playing a fish and nine times out of ten the line parts. It is my guess that most anglers use these heavy strenth low diameter braids because they feel useing normal mono at higher breaking strenths would limit the number of bites they would get.

 

It matters not that the angler is an expert or a novice in my view the use of 30lb braid cannot be defended for normal use.

 

I think Steve Pope had it about right with his suggested line strenths and 16lb is about as high as any good angler should need for use on any river in the uk.

 

Perhaps the anglers that use high strenth braid would like to explian why they feel the need to use it?????

Tight lines Barry Ford

[Guest barry ford]

Originally posted by Steve Randles:

Steve..Given that Ray is conservation minded, can you see any reason why he would use 30lb braid?

 

Surely he has decided to use this b/s of braid for valid reasons?

 

Tight Lines

 

Hi Steve,

I have just got back from my local tackle shop. We did a test on 20lb fireline on a set of 40lb scales, it bottomed them out before breaking now this is supposed to be 20lb breaking strain?

 

If 20lb doesent break till 40lb plus at what setting do you think 30lb will break at?

 

Surely there can be no valid reason's for useing such strong line?

 

I hope we may get to hear Ray Waltons reason's

Cheers Barry Ford

 

Steve Randles

[Guest Gordon Scott]

Yes, I know I said I wouldn't be back but...

Let's do a brief precis of this thread shall we?

1)Barry said that he'd read M.B's piece in the 'Times and thought that using 30lb. line was a no-no, and that rolling baits caused a lot of line bites and foulhooked fish in his experience.

2) I replied saying that in my, and many friends' experience moving baits actually resulted in less, not more foulhooking,and possibly it was his own technique that needed examination.

3) Barry came back saying we're a tetchy old lot, and there was no criticism implied in his posting; well, Barry, you commented unfavourably on Ray's choice of tackle and the method he uses, that does seem to me to be just a teeny bit critical... Not that there's anything at all wrong with criticism you understand, none of us would be here if we thought that way.

4-21 inclusive) I said it would be brief didn't I? Well we bounced back and forward, some nice inclusions by the two Steves and others but at the end of the day no-one's really given an inch and we all hold the same views as we did at the beginning. No change there then... Still it all helps the world go round don't it?

I'm off to get my gear ready for the Kennet tomorrow,and if you really want to know, it'll be ten pound line max., eight or even six pound hooklengths and I'll almost certainly be fishing statically and waiting for the old 'pin to scream off, 'cos that's what I like and it catches me my fair share of barbel. I'll never say though, that this is the only way, and I'll always defend another's right to do so.

This really is my last response, I'm bored...

Gordon

[Guest Stuart M]

I would like to add that one of the main reasons that Ray uses braid of 30lb B.S is that it his rolling method doesn't work very well with anything less. Ray's reasoning behind this is that because if he uses a lower B.S braid it is too thin to create enough drag to move the bait, by using 30lb it is nearly the same drag as say 8lb mono. Ray doesn't lose much gear in snags etc. as the hooks usually straighten before the line snaps. All seems ok with me on this one except one thing....i still don't like the sound of a barbel towing round 3ft or so of 30lb braid ,should it break, which seems too happen when you don't expect it with braid.

[Guest Stuart M]

one more thing..i have read the point from several anglers that it isn't that common to foul hook fish when rolling. it's not relevant whether or not the hook is buried in the bait as it is when you strike that most of the foul hooking occurs. I used to fish alot with Trefor West who uses a slighly different form of rolling/ moving the baits. I can assure you that you can / do foul hook quite a few fish this way.What seems to happen is the barbel can smell the bait, they then move to intercept it but don't always take the bait first time(they could be spooked or just excited) what happens next is that the fish drops back down stream to get behind the bait and the mainline gets trapped behind the pectals. This trapped line then dislodges the lead and gives a classic drop back bite..which is of course struck at..the result a foul hooked fish in one of the pects. Believe me it happens loads!

[Guest barry ford]

Originally posted by Gordon Scott:

Yes, I know I said I wouldn't be back but...

Let's do a brief precis of this thread shall we?

1)Barry said that he'd read M.B's piece in the 'Times and thought that using 30lb. line was a no-no, and that rolling baits caused a lot of line bites and foulhooked fish in his experience.

2) I replied saying that in my, and many friends' experience moving baits actually resulted in less, not more foulhooking,and possibly it was his own technique that needed examination.

3) Barry came back saying we're a tetchy old lot, and there was no criticism implied in his posting; well, Barry, you commented unfavourably on Ray's choice of tackle and the method he uses, that does seem to me to be just a teeny bit critical... Not that there's anything at all wrong with criticism you understand, none of us would be here if we thought that way.  

4-21 inclusive) I said it would be brief didn't I? Well we bounced back and forward, some nice inclusions by the two Steves and others but at the end of the day no-one's really given an inch and we all hold the same views as we did at the beginning. No change there then... Still it all helps the world go round don't it?

I'm off to get my gear ready for the Kennet tomorrow,and if you really want to know, it'll be ten pound line max., eight or even six pound hooklengths and I'll almost certainly be fishing statically and waiting for the old 'pin to scream off, 'cos that's what I like and it catches me my fair share of barbel. I'll never say though, that this is the only way, and I'll always defend another's right to do so.

This really is my last response, I'm bored...

Gordon

Good luck on the kennet Gordon, by the way I have examined my own methods as you suggested and quess what they arent that much different to RW save for the 30lb bs braid, Stuart Ms view is that RW usess 30lb line to create drag on the bait, would not say 12lb mono have the same effect? So you see Gordon you really cant defend the use of 30lb braid. Your only argument seems to be that if an angler chooses to fish in a particular way he has that right.

 

 

Your own Barbel Society recomends balanced tackle are you therfore saying they are wrong??

Tight lines tommorow

Barry Ford

[Guest pete falloon]

Hello

 

sounds like a good debate. I'm new to barbelling, my tackle these days is a result of insurance replacement of stolen gear last year. Came back to angling after a break of 5yrs or so, with the aim of small water carping and river chub and barbel etc. So, I have for my barbelling a John Wilson avon/quiver 1.25lbs tc usually used with shimano 5010 and 8lb or 10lb line. I'm looking for pointers here, is this balanced? If I have the guts to get near snags or fish with heavy leads in the floods, I might just use a 2lb tc rod and 10lb line.

 

The reason I ask is 1) you guys seems to have a good range of opinions and 2)i'd like to buy a new rod and reel to complement what i have, maybe more aimed at rolling and float fishing.

 

thanks

 

Pete

[Guest Gordon Scott]

Barry, Barry, Barry! If you're half as good at getting the fish to take your bait as you are at getting ME to take it I must come to you for some lessons...

First. It's not my bloody Barbel Society! Sure , I was a founder member and sat on the committee 'til recently, but I was only one of - what is it now - 1300 members? As you might expect, I agreed with the committee's stance on most subjects, mildly disagreed on some others and stood seemingly alone on just a few decisions. A stance I'm sure I shared with all committee members of all angling clubs - or at least those with a mind of their own... Throughout this time I always endorsed the committee's decisions publicly,regardless of the fact that I might sometimes have privately had reservations, and that's not going to change now.

In fact I do agree broadly with the Society's Handling Code, but any such code will contain errors and omissions, otherwise it would be the size of Yellow Pages. Actually, I know the code's due for an update, as I am sure Steve Pope will confirm. It all takes time though, and all the committee are unpaid volunteers.When/if it is updated I am sure I will still agree with the substance but still be able to find fault with some details. It's just a fact of life.

I think I made it clear earlier what my personal preferences are when it comes to barbel tackle and methods, but I wouldn't dream of criticising Ray Walton because his views are different from mine. That's why I jumped to his defence in his absence. I'm sure as soon as Ray gets back from his tour with Ken Dodd and the rest of the troupe he'll speak up for himself! Honestly Barry, trust me on this, to imply that Ray is using and endorsing tackle and methods that are putting barbel at undue risk is akin to accusing the late Mother Theresa of running a crack cocaine ring! I would never claim to have agreed with all Ray's pronouncements in the past, that's my privilege, but his committment to barbel study and conservation over the last twenty years is almost unique.

NOW can I go away and stay away? Much more of this and I'll be hanging myself with some 30lb. Spiderwire...

Gordon (President of the God Worships Ray Walton Society)

[Guest Graham E]

Peter. The tackle you mention was the same I used for a number of years, and always found it did an excellent job for barbel/chub. It also has the advantage of being great for larger rivers as it has the umph to hit home smaller species bites without being too soft and long in the tip.

The only difference I would make would be to use a 13ft for rolling if possible to enable greater control when far bank rolling.

 

Gordon....30lb...spiderwire. Did you miss a 0 off that. It isn't balanced!!!

[Guest Gordon Scott]

Originally posted by Graham E:

Gordon....30lb...spiderwire. Did you miss an 0 off that. It isn't balanced!!!

 

 

Do I take it Mr E., that you're implying that I'm a fat git?? Well, I may be, but I ain't a member of A.C.P. yet! (Aquatic Car Parkers)...