i got a wieght issue...

[PatrickALeigh]

Any chance you could answer the advertising question I asked earlier please? That would help clarify things

 

I haven't used any of your gear I'm afraid, and the sad thing is it's because it's been shoved down my throat so much! Not just your gear either, this is not a weird pathalogical hatred of one tackle company! I buy gear on the strength of personal recommendations from people I trust and from personally judging things to be suitable for my fishing - the first step of which always used to be browsing adverts in magazines.

 

We'll have to disagree about the stonze but again I'd like to point out that for me this particular weight falls into the same category as thousands of other bits of tackle sold by every tackle company out there. That's your business and I understand that, and of course you want to market it, but I am at the other end of the spectrum where I just want new anglers to get good, solid, useful advice, which incidentally does include (unbiased) tackle and bait recommendations!

 

Andrew

 

Andrew,

I answered your advertising question in post #30 ...copied below to save you scrolling back up the page.

 

Of course publishers will give more column inches to those companies who pay for adverts than those that don't.... it's the way of this capitalist and commercial world we live in... you spend £1500 on an advert and you'll get space... magazine publishers are not charities

 

 

Why the cut and paste from FM? .... I've said the same thing on here... I'm not saying placement does not go on, I'm not saying that those who advertise don't get more column inches, yes, magazines will fail (and 3 have in the last 12 months) due to dropping advertising revenue, they needed to appease the advertisers as in all forms of advertising media.

 

Out of context or swap the name? not out of context at all my friend, your very naive or in denial with your problem. Post#17 on here starts with "Pallatrax irritate me more than the rest" ... your issue is the highlighted by the fact that other members (post#12) of this board highlight your issue, not by using ANY other name, but the brand name Pallatrax. Likewise, this was also highlighted previously on this forum by Steve Burke on another thread... or shall we go to the post by Clint Walker responding to the bashing of another company and young angler concerned... Clint responded to the thread with his own thoughts and entirely about the thread in question without brand mentions. And your reply "That post was brought to you by Pallatrax" ... tongue in cheek? could have been, but even so it just highlights an irrational and un-healthy disposition you have to the brand.

 

 

I get it, you don't like Pallatrax, you don't like product placement and you don't like Stonze... and I deny nothing about what brings you to your choice/opinion.... as Budgie said above, had you used a generic term of product placement in your responses rather than singling out a brand then I would have had no need to reply after our marketing software located the Pallatrax name. As stated from the off, this was a right to reply to use of the brand name alone.

 

 

John (Gozzer),

Yes, a stone, either with a hole in or a swivel attached. Yes, been in use for centuries as a fishing weight ..(longer than lead) , yes, people buy them, some don't have the opportunity/time/equipment to make their own or feel the need, like many thnigs in life.

 

Wooden rod rests ... I believe things like that are quite common already. They grown on trees you know

Swan Mussel shell weights ... already been done by many anglers... there are even ones that look like twigs too now. (not swan mussel shells looking like twigs, but weights that do )

Have not see anybody marketing reeds as floats, but I personally have used them to cover the hooklength when stalking carp many years agao and I'm sure I'm not alone in that nor the first to come up with the idea.

 

Not many 'firsts' left out there, and we don't proclaim to be.. Perhaps Andrews long indicators are going to be the new product for 2011/12

 

Tight lines

Edited February 10, 2011 by PatrickALeigh

[Anderoo]

My long swingers are the must-have item of 2011 Everything else is now obsolete!

 

It's not a problem or an unhealthy obsession Patrick, your software picked out the few times I've said 'Pallatrax' that's all, there's plenty else in generic terms and mentioning other brands. Like I said, it's my opinion that some companies are worse than others for clearly using an article as a sales vehicle, and some of the worst examples I've seen have been by Pallatrax-sponsered writers. Just my opinion, and I appreciate that others aren't bothered by it.

 

I have old copies of CAT and CF at home somewhere (I've been meaning to post them to Newt for ages, sorry Newt), I can find examples if you like.

 

The 'bashing of another company' was well deserved! No-one was having a go at the young angler involved, it's the media-driven carp machine that took the flak for that, and rightly so. However you slice it, a 10-year old can't be a tackle consultant! And yes, my comment was tongue in cheek.

 

The cut and paste was a bit of a cheap shot in respose to your selective quotes from me, but they also seem to suggest that product placement is at the heart of such articles, rather than incidental. I.e. the article is written around the products.

 

As you are so deeply involved with the business it might be hard to see the problem, but if you take a big step back and read some articles from magazines such as Big Fish World or Coarse Fishing Today from the early-mid 90s (before all this started) - or even some articles published now on the web, such as the excellent carp fishing ones on here by Julian - you must be able to see that those articles read better, are more interesting, are more genuine in their intent, and much more helpful and entertaining than current examples?

 

Thanks for repeating the bit about advertising, I must have missed that before. It sort of answers my question. I assume that you don't buy pages for articles like you do advertising space, but the more advertising space you buy the more pages you are allocated? So essentially the same thing?

 

If you want to see the upshot of it all, simply look at any posts by new anglers on any forum. They've been sold an idea of what fishing is and how it has to be done, and they're dropped into a massively expensive and complicated world, whereas it's actually all pretty cheap, simple and fun. The trouble is, advice on forums by experienced and well-meaning people will always be trumped by advice in published magazines by 'famous' anglers, and if the reason those anglers are allowed to write in the mag in the first place is because the company that sponsers them has paid for the privilege, they're going to get sold the version of fishing that makes that company the most money.

 

Boiling it down to 'I hate Pallatrax' is missing the point by a mile and concentrating on the wrong thing!

[Anderoo]

BTW I also don't boycot companies because of these advertorials! Korum are one of the very worst, but their S3 hooks are absolutely superb and I both use them and recommend them to people. Korda are in a league of their own but their Krusha is a genuinely good idea and a brilliant little thing, and I have quite a few other Korda bits too. Dynamite baits are again off the scale, but I use their groundbait and boilies all the time. If someone said to me, 'you should have a look at these Pallatrax [whatevers], they're fantastic', I'd check them out and if they were good happily buy them.

 

It's not the brand and a hatred of of the brand, it's a much wider point that I hope I have managed to convey?

[gozzer]

John (Gozzer),

Yes, a stone, either with a hole in or a swivel attached. Yes, been in use for centuries as a fishing weight ..(longer than lead) , yes, people buy them, some don't have the opportunity/time/equipment to make their own or feel the need, like many thnigs in life.

 

Wooden rod rests ... I believe things like that are quite common already. They grown on trees you know

Swan Mussel shell weights ... already been done by many anglers... there are even ones that look like twigs too now. (not swan mussel shells looking like twigs, but weights that do )

Have not see anybody marketing reeds as floats, but I personally have used them to cover the hooklength when stalking carp many years agao and I'm sure I'm not alone in that nor the first to come up with the idea.

 

Not many 'firsts' left out there, and we don't proclaim to be.. Perhaps Andrews long indicators are going to be the new product for 2011/12

 

Tight lines

 

You have more "last words on the subject" than I have last casts towards the end of a session, Mr Leigh.

 

You missed the point of my post I feel.

The forked wooden rod rests would be the result of many years of research and development, to produce an environmentally friendly alternative to the humble metal versions that are in common usage.

 

The swan mussel would be used as a method feeder, not just a weight. Therefore delivering the attractant/bait in a natural and environmentally friendly vessel.

 

The reeds would be sold in a range that matched the various indigenous reeds on the venues of your choice, and thus natural, and environmentally friendly.

 

The water ( which you failed to mention) would be wholly natural to the venue you fish, and therefore as environmentally friendly as you can get.

 

These would of course be 'specially sourced' (that's always worth mentioning, and adds a few quid to the price), and, again, all will be the result of many years of research and development, (a few more quid for that one as well).

 

As you may have gathered, I too am tired and very wary of the over, (and overt) influence that commercialism is having on angling. By preying on the newcomers, and more gullible among the angling fraternity, it creates a belief that there is a 'magic' solution to catching fish. We know that this is not true. As for brand names and celeb' endorsement, well, they mean nothing to me personally. As with many more experienced anglers, my eyes glaze over when I read or hear of their exploits using XXX products. But we all know that there are enough gullible folk out there who think because 'a celeb' says it, then it must be true.

 

You will notice that I have not mentioned any product name in my posts. This is because your product has had enough exposure in this thread, (which I believe is why you are continuing in you posts). As it's often said, "even bad publicity is better than none at all".

 

John.

[Mark Wintle]

The forked wooden rod rests would be the result of many years of research and development, to produce an environmentally friendly alternative to the humble metal versions that are in common usage.

 

Beware of these eco-friendly wooden rod-rests. I used some when I was a kid in about 1970. When the drain was redredged in 1982 they had turned into 20ft willow trees.

[gozzer]

Beware of these eco-friendly wooden rod-rests. I used some when I was a kid in about 1970. When the drain was redredged in 1982 they had turned into 20ft willow trees.

 

Thanks for reminding me Mark, I forgot to mention that they were also recyclable.

 

 

John.

[Steve Burke]

Likewise, this was also highlighted previously on this forum by Steve Burke on another thread...

 

Patrick, as you've mentioned my name please post a link to what I posted. Thanks.

[Anderoo]

Just saw this on another forum: http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=148290

 

All related and there are some very good posts on exactly the issue we're discussing here (post 58 is a good example but there are lots of others).

 

It isn't just me

[PatrickALeigh]

Patrick, as you've mentioned my name please post a link to what I posted. Thanks.

 

As you've asked, here it is below: Please note, that this has only been posted as a direct response to this post and for no other reason. I've had my 'last word' previously...

 

It's not often I disagree with Andrew. I do here, however.

 

Firstly, as he states in his article, Martin James has MS. This means that he has trouble using his hands, and he also suffers from extreme exhaustion. Any help he can get, such as an easy way to make cheesepaste, is therefore a real boon. Thus I feel he's totally justified in recommending such products.

 

Secondly, I don't go as far as Andrew in detesting references to commercial products in articles. It certainly wouldn't stop me reading a magazine. In fact, I often learn something of value from such recommendations. Where I do agree with Andrew though is if there's continual references to the writer's sponsors, especially if it breaks the continuity of the article. This has become more and more prevalent. But such writers don't seem to realise that it's counterproductive. This is because so many readers ignore everything that author writes about any product whatsoever!

 

I've never said that the placement does not dumb down and affect the impact... I've just stated it happens, everywhere and anywhere.. it's a commercial requirement of ALL industries where money is spent on product and advertising and placement rules.

Yes, it is unfortunate, but it's the way of the world and happens.

 

I personally fell out of love with fishing for carp as a main species back in 2001 after many happy years doing so due to the new element in the sport as Andrew refers in his cemex forum post. BUT, that is not what I was replying too.

 

This will go round in circles.. agree to disagree.

 

Tight lines

 

 

Andrew, just to give you a little info, my favourite baits of all time and ones I still use a lot today are silkweed and elderberries when roach fishing..... bet you were not expecting that ... peace and out

Edited February 10, 2011 by PatrickALeigh

[Steve Burke]

Thanks, Patrick.