holding carp

[jackhammer]

I edited this post to nothing because it makes me look like a stupid fool, they arn't innocent, but they arn't guilty either, its us that moved them to this environment

 

if you didn't see the post I edited to make this post, ignore and just think of me as a crazy person

Edited February 22, 2011 by jackhammer

[Dick Dastardly]

I actually thought that site was a joke, until I read on, I still laughed, because they are just trying to find pathetic excuse to kill an innocent creature to gain cash.

 

 

And you seem to have missed it as well Jackhammer! Its not really anything to do with making money more about using the dead carp constructively and not just throwing them up the bank to rot.

 

Its this whole mindset of the way us British anglers regard carp being so alien to the rest of the world that causes this outrage! As I said to Dean there are so many in Australia (where remember nature never intended them to be) that they are a major problem to the aquatic environment so need to be culled (as sadly they will never be able to totally eradicate them as would be best).

 

Can I offer an imaginary scenario to try and explain how most Aussie sport fishermen feel?

 

Right you love your carp and carp fishing down your local pond.Its a nice place and the head of carp in there supply good sport and keep the water a bit coloured and the weed down to an acceptable level because its only a small place but you love it and have fished it all your life.

 

I come along and buy the fishing rights.Now I love a US species called Alligator Gar-

 

 

 

A beautiful predator that can grow to over 400lbs but regularly exceeds 150lbs.Terrific sporting fish but not much cop to eat and they do stink!

 

I get permission to import and stock 1/2 dozen cause 6 wont cause a problem.I put them in "our" pond they love our climate and the conditions are superb for them! in fact much much better than even back in their home country.They breed like crazy eating all of the carp in the pond other than a few small ones that hide in the bit of weed. Over the years the water starts to clear without the carp being so abundant this means that the cormorants can then easily start hammering the roach and Rudd in our pond and there isn't much for us to fish for other than the AG's that Budgie stocked. But it dont really matter as now the weed has grown that much you couldn't wet a line any way and after all who would want to fish their the mossies are so bad since all the silver fish were eaten by the cormorants and were no longer their to eat so many of the mossie larva......................

 

So suppose we must get rid of the wonderful,sporting,highly impressive AG's that Budgie stocked? we could give them to the pond down the road? the one that has seen Budgie and his bloomin AG's destroy "our" pond? Strange but they don't want them! So we will just chuck the dead ones we remove on the land fill site? bit of a waste of these magnificent creatures so lets sell them off as cat food...

 

Mean while out in Thailand Budgies old mate Stu Gillam who runs an exotic species angling resort is fuming about the needless slaughter of these magnificent fish that HE has to pay an absolute fortune for! he gives you and me a right old slagging Jack.......................................................

 

Se what I'm saying albeit a bit dramatised?

Edited February 22, 2011 by BUDGIE

[Dick Dastardly]

I edited this post to nothing because it makes me look like a stupid fool, they arn't innocent, but they arn't guilty either, its us that moved them to this environment

 

if you didn't see the post I edited to make this post, ignore and just think of me as a crazy person

 

 

You plainly are not stupid Jack you simply didn't know! Big man to admit that respect.This is the real value of AN and these discussions we can all learn.Ive lost count of the stuff Ive learned from both experts and beginners alike on here.

[poledark]

I think the pose by Chris Yates was a bit of homage to Dick Walkers pose with Clarissa.

 

Den

[gozzer]

It would seem that my post upset a few people, thanks Budgie for explaining the problems that carp are causing over there. The introduction of an alien species into a new environment threatens the whole biodiversity of that and the surrounding area.

It is the same over here, this obsession with stocking alien species (especially carp) into every waterway, is bound to have a detrimental effect on the indigenous species. But they aren't the 'in' fish so it doesn't seem to matter.

 

I wonder, do you get as upset over the slaughter of rabbits and cane toads Dean?

 

John.

[Barry C]

Never thought of that poldark, think your right.

But its still a great safe way to pose for a snap.

[Anderoo]

Tonight Gozzer will sleep the deep, warm sleep of a man who has done a job well

 

Three minutes is a long time to have a fish out of water - time it now and you'll see what I mean. Being organised can cut this right down, and unless you really need to weigh and photograph it, down to almost zero.

 

Holding fish low to the ground and using both hands to support its weight evenly is good practice. Also be prepared for the inevitable flap, especially with the bigger fish.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Anderoo

[dean in devon]

It would seem that my post upset a few people, thanks Budgie for explaining the problems that carp are causing over there. The introduction of an alien species into a new environment threatens the whole biodiversity of that and the surrounding area.

It is the same over here, this obsession with stocking alien species (especially carp) into every waterway, is bound to have a detrimental effect on the indigenous species. But they aren't the 'in' fish so it doesn't seem to matter.

 

I wonder, do you get as upset over the slaughter of rabbits and cane toads Dean?

 

John.

you didn't upet persay, it was the website it's self.

also carp comes from italy origanly, we braught them over to feed on them back in the 1500's not sure of the date but i could google it,

and yes budgie i undertand mate on the disease principle, but then we have to take into context on fish tanks on where the fish are from. most all over the world, even o on marine, but these carp could do well for new lakes new areas, for kids to get into fishing, even for our EA money to go into a project for new lkakes with some small carp, thi i where we could find new anglers, i know lots of area's in the uk that don't have lakes, these would fit in (my opinion)

my kids are lucky as i love to how them how i feel abou fishing a my dad once showed me.

Its not really anything to do with making money more about using the dead carp constructively and not just throwing them up the bank to rot.

then it is making money budgie, surely, a carp that dies naturaly floats to a bank edge where insects/fish etc etc feed off the body, making them an item to use is a profit (in my eyes)

no trying to caue arguments, i do agree on mot of what you are saying in all your threads (budgie) but wrong is wrong, all breeds of fish from everywhere gets abused because it's a water creature, yet fih can be beautifull (depending on how you look on it) i think carp look amaing personally and catfish too, hence why i love fishing them.

[Dick Dastardly]

We all think that fish are great looking creatures Dean its just that like anything they can become a problem if natures balance is upset. The carp are not been killed primarily for use as fertilizer but being killed because there are simply far to many of them and they are seriously (due to the massive numbers of them and them being "unnatural" in that system) damaging the aquatic environment and threatening the native species survival. Man is now (unfortunately for the poor old carp) just trying to repair the damage to the natural balance he has caused. As I said the use of them for fertilizer or anything is just a by line.

 

Because you "know" carp your sympathies are with them but maybe if you knew Murry Cod etc and had watched them decline as a direct result of the introduction and massive growth of the carp your sympathies would lay else where?

 

These new lakes you speak of,why do you feel its carp we should stock them with and not a mixture of species?

 

Also regardless of the rights or wrongs of how we perceive it who are we to tell people in another country under different circumstances what to do or pass judgement?

 

I thought you could understand this now? You said in an earlier post that killing them shouldn't be an option but as I tried to point out by asking those questions what other option is there realistically? If you could come up with one I'm sure the Aussies would love to hear it.

Edited February 22, 2011 by BUDGIE

[gozzer]

Tonight Gozzer will sleep the deep, warm sleep of a man who has done a job well

 

Not quite sure how to take that Andrew.

I would like a good nights sleep for a change though, but it would take more than a couple of posts on here to achieve it.

 

Dean, I'm a bit puzzled about your post. You seem to be against carp being used as an "item" for profit, but you also talk about more carp waters being created being a good idea. Why do you think that we have so many carp waters? It's not for the benefit of the environment, or the indigenous species. They don't build these things out of the goodness of their heart, they are there to make a profit. A profit for the owner of the water, and/or the tackle industry, that promote carp as the be all and end all of angling. They are a commodity to be bought and sold, as and when money can be made. All this regardless of the damage to the ecology of a water. You buy the Angling Times, look how Shimano are petitioning BW to get carp stocked in every canal system. Have a guess why they are doing it.

 

We don't need any more waters spoiled by the stocking of carp, there are other fish in our waters, don't they deserve some consideration? And don't other anglers that don't share this obsession, deserve to be able to make a choice?

 

John.