Pond Fish - Do You Like Catching Them?

[Dick Dastardly]

Fishing commercials is an artificial experience and so why not go the whole hog and stock with what ever.

 

Because its one step closer for these fish getting into waters where they are not wanted or contained.

 

By the mere fact that they are introduced into waters means they can be transferred illegally by idiots (without having to pay for them from garden centres/pet shops etc) Once in a water they can also be spread by "natural" means.Not in any waters stops this!

 

Always strikes me as how strange it is that knocking a Zander/Catfish on the head that has been illegally introduced is ok yet people would freak if I banged these on the head and fed them to my cat!-

 

[Dick Dastardly]

Is there anybody on this board who learnt fly fishing skills on a commercial lake stocked with trout? Who abhors the stocking of barbel in commercials.

 

Are trout invariably river fish in their natural state?

 

 

Yes me! and yes they are as even ones found naturally in the Lochs and Loughs come from the rivers that feed them.

 

It is double standards I admit.

 

From what I remember the stocking of the reservoirs etc with trout was welcomed as it brought affordable fly fishing for trout to many more.There was an element of snobbery (but all trout fishing still water and river is full of this) but no real problems with the idea as a whole.

[Tigger]

And what about trout? A species found in still waters everywhere.

 

 

Yes, and naturally, trout live in lakes etc and choose not to live in the rivers flowing in and out of them.

[Dales]

Always strikes me as how strange it is that knocking a Zander/Catfish on the head that has been illegally introduced is ok yet people would freak if I banged these on the head and fed them to my cat!-

 

True.

 

Plus nice catch of ornamentals.

[Dick Dastardly]

Yes, and naturally, trout live in lakes etc and choose not to live in the rivers flowing in and out of them.

 

But they still have to return to those rivers to spawn. But you do have a point, if the conditions were that bad they simply wouldn't go in the lake/loch/loughs I suppose.Before anyone says I might as well add that some lowland lakes and reservoirs which have rivers/streams running in/out the browns sometimes spawn successfully but I think we shouldn't get to tied up with game and coarse fish as after all the game fish are born with migratory instincts when it comes to reproducing.

 

Another difference is that I have fished several rivers in the UK and abroad that have lakes,dead arms,harbours/marinas and have never caught a barbel or even heard of one (anyone?) coming from anything but the river and normally the pacier more oxygenated stretches (even though in a couple of instances these haven't been that far from "still water" features) So using Ian's logic that would suggest they don't like still water!

[Steve Walker]

I don't agree with overstocking any species, but the particular water quality requirements of a given species will determine whether chucking them in a commercial creates a welfare problem or not. Barbel have different needs to carp. If you stocked trout into a typical commercial, they'd die. Tench and crucians evolved to thrive in pretty harsh conditions without suffering harm, so I'm less concerned that they are being subjected to unsuitable habitat.

 

On stillwater chub, I've only seen them thrive in clean reservoir type waters - they seem to have a wider tolerance of acceptable habitat than do barbel, but I would have to look up their tolerance data to make an informed comment. On balance, why not leave them where they belong?

 

On stillwater trout, some local small stillwater fisheries have stocking policies which I think are unethical - their waters get too warm in the height of summer to support trout, and a lot of the fish snuff it as a result of the ensuing stress. I don't patronise these fisheries. Others stop stocking in springtime, run the stocks down and close for the summer. Others have good year round trout habitat.

 

It's up to each individual to do what they think best - I've made my choices and drawn my lines.

[Dick Dastardly]

On stillwater trout, some local small stillwater fisheries have stocking policies which I think are unethical - their waters get too warm in the height of summer to support trout, and a lot of the fish snuff it as a result of the ensuing stress.

 

Strangely enough Ive seen more of this sort of thing on small club/syndicate run trout waters than "commercial"/"Put and take" ones!

 

Ive had many a fall out when the local trout "expert" bullys the comittee into wasting more of our money! So much so that I no longer bother with them!

[Dales]

Maybe I should point out that I have never fished still waters for Barbel yet and plan to because it has Orfe in it. I have no interest in catching still water Barbel and truth be told I don't much want to see them in our still waters and also think it would be a sad day if they end up as the norm on commercial waters.

 

What a sad day it would be if commercials end up with Albino and Golden Barbel in them. However I still think that it is no worse then stocking other species. Maybe it's because Barbel are seen to a certain extent as a "Marker Species" to many, one of the last true natural species that does involve getting out and back to a more wild form of fishing and so represents all that is seen as good about our sport. If they become the norm in commercials and they are getting more popular, then it shows just how far "angling" has moved away from it's roots and the natural fishing that many love.

 

Maybe that's why we have a Barbel on our licence, as it does conjure up thoughts about all that is good about fishing. Maybe taming the "wild Barbel" and reducing it to just another stockie can be seen as the final straw for many but I can't see how it's much worse then doing the same to other fish.

 

I think before in thread around using baits I said that I had never used Perch as bait and it was down to an emotional thing, I like Perch and it just feels wrong to me to use them, but I use other species. What is the difference? It's a personnel thing, first fish I caught and all my early years fishing involved plenty of Perch fishing it's just one step to far for me to use them as bait. Stocking Barbel is no doubt a step and more likely a mile to much for others and represents all they hate about "modern fishing"

 

But on a welfare grounds, I doubt it's a bed of roses for other fish in commercials. I still don't buy the argument about Tench and Crucians in poor water. Just because they are last to go belly up, does not prove they are able to thrive in such conditions, they just survive better. It might be a rather cold attitude but Barbel also do survive in commercial conditions and maybe that's the best fish in some commercials can aspire to survive not thrive

[lutra]

I don't agree with overstocking any species, but the particular water quality requirements of a given species will determine whether chucking them in a commercial creates a welfare problem or not. Barbel have different needs to carp. If you stocked trout into a typical commercial, they'd die. Tench and crucians evolved to thrive in pretty harsh conditions without suffering harm, so I'm less concerned that they are being subjected to unsuitable habitat.

 

On stillwater chub, I've only seen them thrive in clean reservoir type waters - they seem to have a wider tolerance of acceptable habitat than do barbel, but I would have to look up their tolerance data to make an informed comment. On balance, why not leave them where they belong?

 

On stillwater trout, some local small stillwater fisheries have stocking policies which I think are unethical - their waters get too warm in the height of summer to support trout, and a lot of the fish snuff it as a result of the ensuing stress. I don't patronise these fisheries. Others stop stocking in springtime, run the stocks down and close for the summer. Others have good year round trout habitat.

 

It's up to each individual to do what they think best - I've made my choices and drawn my lines.

 

They can stick what they want in commercials for me. As Dales says it isn't right to over stock any species. If it was up to me, you would see more commercials getting prosecuted for their fish welfare.

 

I'm of the opinion that chub seem to do OK in stillwaters. Ive caught one or two nice looking plump chub from small non commercial stillwaters and they've always seemed to be in the best of health. From what I've seen and read of them in heavily stocked commerails, they don't seem to do to badly in there either. Didn't the record come from such a place?

 

Ive never caught a stillwater barbel or fished stillwaters with them in, so can't really say if its right or wrong to put them in stillwaters. How do barbel get on in non commercial stillwaters with better water quality?

Edited March 5, 2011 by lutra

[Vagabond]

Ive caught one or two nice looking plump chub from small non commercial stillwaters and they've always seemed to be in the best of health.

 

Me too - there is a sort of oxbow lake near ("near" as in about a hundred yards) one of my local rivers. It contains some chub, presumably as a result of flooding. I have had them up to 4 lb there.

 

Ironically, the lake and some nearby dykes are owned by a farmer who runs a carp fishery, but has the good sense to leave the carp in their muddy pit and allow the oxbow to stay in its natural state - it was once used as a duck decoy.

 

How do barbel get on in non commercial stillwaters with better water quality?

 

No personal experience, but some gravel pits next to the Medway are said to contain barbel as a result of the river flooding. There have been one or two reports of barbel being caught there.

AFAIK the individual fish survive, but won't be able to breed. The water quality will deteriorate henceforth though, as the owning club have now stocked "match-sized" carp.